Behind the Screens: Conversations with Background Screening Pros hosted by Les Rosen

Episode 61: Compliance, Curiosity, and Career Growth with Jennifer Daimon

• Les Rosen • Season 1 • Episode 61

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In this episode of Behind the Screens, I speak with Jennifer Daimon, VP of Compliance and In-House Counsel at AccuSourceHR. Jennifer’s journey into the background screening industry started in a way many professionals can relate to. What began as a job researching public records while she attended law school eventually turned into a long-term career built around compliance, investigation, and leadership.

Jennifer shares how working in the industry while studying law shaped her perspective and prepared her for the complex legal and operational challenges that background screening companies face today. From navigating evolving regulations to advising clients and managing disputes, her role sits at the intersection of law, compliance, and business strategy.

We also talk about the collaborative nature of the screening industry, particularly through organizations like PBSA, where competitors work together to solve shared challenges such as data access and regulatory changes.

Jennifer offers thoughtful advice for newcomers entering the field, emphasizing the importance of curiosity, problem-solving, and never being afraid to ask questions. Her story highlights how unexpected career paths can lead to meaningful opportunities when professionals stay engaged, keep learning, and remain open to growth.

And like many guests on this podcast, Jennifer reminds us that the people behind the screening industry often have fascinating stories outside of their professional roles.

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SPEAKER_00

When I was an early manager, kind of just getting my feet wet, one of the most important lessons that I was taught was when you have a problem and you're going to your upper manager, don't just go with the problem. Make sure that you at least come with a potential solution or two. So that way you're not taking your issue and expect them to solve it. Even if you don't have the answer and you definitely need the assistance with it, at least have the thoughts and come with a problem-solving mindset. That has been very critical for me throughout the remainder of my career so far, and it's been very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. And ladies and gentlemen, across the country, across the world, welcome again to another episode of Behind the Screens, bringing you stories from background screening pros and where we get to find out all sorts of interesting things from lots of different people. And today we have a special guest, of course, being a lawyer, have a special interest in compliance. And I am fascinated by in-house compliance and in-house compliance attorneys. And we are fortunate today to have with us one of the very best, someone who really exemplifies what it means to be an in-house attorney for a happening screening firm. Pleasure to have with us today, Jennifer Damon. Jennifer, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much, Les, and I really, really appreciate giving this opportunity to join you.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm glad to have you because just talking before we went live, just so much interesting things happening. So let's start with an icebreaker. Where in the world are you? Where are we talking from? I'm in the San Francisco area. Where are you?

SPEAKER_00

So I am located outside of the Cleveland, Ohio area. And I have been fortunate enough to work remote from my house since 2018.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Yeah, and I remember when when COVID hit, you know, for an old dinosaur like me, it's like, well, how can anyone work remote? And it turned out, well, how can you not? And now everybody does. So how do you like working remote? I mean, how's that work out for you? I mean, you're obviously you're used to it, you've been doing it for a while.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Sometimes it does get a little bit lonely. You miss the in-person interaction, but it's great seeing everyone at KBSA conferences and as a member of the executive team for my company, AcuSource HR. We meet in person several times throughout the year. So I do get that in-person interaction, but working remote is amazing and kind of get used to it after a while.

SPEAKER_01

And it certainly makes for a shorter commuter, right? I mean, from one room to another. So let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell us what your current role is? What are you currently doing? What do you like about it? What do you find most interesting?

SPEAKER_00

So I am the VP of compliance and in-house counsel for AcuSource HR. And honestly, it's it's a really amazing role because I never have a boring day. Obviously, being in compliance in this industry, things can change at a moment's notice. And adding on the in-house counsel role, you never know what's going to come across your desk. You could have an applicant who is calling upset about a situation. It could be escalated up to you to calm them down and discuss it with them. Or you could have attorneys discussing contracting with you. It never is a boring day. You never know what you're going to be waking up with when you walk through your office door, since I don't have a commute. Literally just right downstairs.

SPEAKER_01

And I love it when you wake up and it's all of a sudden some state changed its law. It's like, oh my God, okay. Now we have to retool for that state. Yes. That's the fun thing about the screening industry. Just when you you thought you know it all, all of a sudden you realize there's just you I don't know how much I don't know. It just comes at you to just left and right. And so tell us about your your career path. You mentioned you're with AccuSource HR. Tell us what got you from where you started to where you are now.

SPEAKER_00

So I knew that I wanted to go to law school at some point. But when I graduated from college, I went to John Carroll University in the Cleveland area. I got a degree in English and I knew I wanted to go to law school. But in the meantime, I needed a job. And I don't remember exactly how I found out about the screening job I applied for. Sad thing is, if I still had access to my Yaku emails, I probably still have that email because I tend to keep old emails. But I saw a job at Axiom Information Security Services, and it was for a public record specialist. And they needed someone who was able to type quickly. And I liked typing things out. I was very quick at typing. And it involved criminal record research, which sounded very interesting to me. So I applied for the job, went in and interviewed, and got the offer. It was about 10 minutes away from where I was living at the time in Independence, Ohio. So I applied, started training, and I fell in love with it, just found it so, so fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

So that that was with old Axiom who's now I can't remember who, all the acquisition trail. And that was, you know, Mike Poole, Kurt Schwab, that team, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_00

So I worked there while I went to law school at night. And while I was in law school, I did law review, also did some law school-related jobs, contract law clerk at a company, tutored at law school, so held a couple different positions while continuing to work in the industry, still at AISS. And then I believe in 2012, AISS was acquired by Sterling. So continued to work there. And during that time period, I started as criminal records specialist and then worked my way up to final review, quality assurance. So moved up within the department. 2012 was an interesting year as well because graduated law school, took the bar exam, fun, fun experiences. I'm sure you remembered. Lovely bar exam. Um, became an attorney. I remember sitting in the AISS offices. My supervisor at the time, Brenda Bataka, remembered me waiting. And for those who aren't aware, at least in Ohio, they don't send you an individual email whether you pass the bar exam or not. They post a list of everyone who passes the bar, and you have to go through the list to find your name. So if you don't pass the bar, your name's not on the list. So it's early in the morning. I am refreshing the page, reading down the list for my name. I found it. I let out a scream. I passed the bar exam. And Brenda sent out an email to the entire business group letting everyone know. So very, very proud moment for me.

SPEAKER_01

That's fantastic. And and you kind of glossed over it. But for those who you know have not gone to law school and are not lawyers, the thing that really stuck out in my mind is that law school is hard enough just matriculating as a regular day student, but you did it at night in addition to holding down a full-time job and everything else you were doing. So that's amazing. That's an amazing accomplishment.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. I look back and I honestly do not know how I did it. I really don't.

SPEAKER_01

And again, for the for the non-lawyers who, you know, for lawyers, you go to law review, you go, wow, you know, that that's impressive. But for the non-lawyers, what was that at the uh law school? What did that entail?

SPEAKER_00

So I was on law review for two years. The first year I was an assistant editor, and typically we were reviewing articles that outside lawyers, professors, and others who were publishing within the Akron Law School Law Review had were publishing with us. So we had to make sure that everything that they were citing was accurate and we had to make sure everything was written properly. So many hours of work on top of studying, going to class and writing exams. And then at the end of my first year of law review, I applied to be on the law review editorial board. And at that point, I was a production editor, which meant that I was in charge of a group of assistant editors, which I had been the first year. So had to make sure that they were doing the work that they were assigned to do and was ultimately responsible for them. So kind of a pseudo-manager level position of law review.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, that that is so impressive because you were working full-time during the day, and and being a law review editor is the most Byzantine, detailed, retentive work I can imagine. I mean, every single comma, spacing, I mean, everything has to be exactly perfect. And it's just I mean, it's mind-boggling the attention to detail. So congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

Fantastic. And then and I I can relate your story because I yeah, I'm a little bit older, so I passed the bar, it was the same sort of thing. It was a list, and and you could call the local California legal newspaper, and they would say if your name was on the list or not. And then I think I actually called a second time to make sure it wasn't a mistake. But all right. Well, congratulations. Wow. So then what happened? Because now now you're on a rocket ship.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So at that point, I was starting to apply for different types of work. And strangely enough, I'd applied for a contracts attorney position with a janitorial services company. And I didn't have the necessary experience to get it because they wanted someone with more postgraduate experience. But it turns out that they had my resume in a in their database and they were looking for someone to lead their background screening program. So they ended up recruiting me to lead their end user background screening program as a national compliance manager. So in 2013, I went to the other side of background screening and ran an employer end user program for over three years.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's incredible. So you've been on on on you know, as Joni Mitchell says, both sides now. You uh Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

You you you you know how it's done and you know what the customer needs. So that's uh that's quite an adventure. That's what a long, interesting road has been. So then what happens? You were so you were running a background check uh on a national level for a firm, and then then then what?

SPEAKER_00

So after that, I did some document review and worked for did some contract review as well. And I came back to the CRA side of things. At that point, AcuSource recruited me to come back to the industry on the background screening company side. And I came back into compliance and in-house counsel.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's fantastic. And you've landed there, and that's where you've been since, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, since 2018.

SPEAKER_01

And I think I I was before the call, I think I was going down memory lane with you that AcuSource started off as a company in Corona, California.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Got acquired and and and and you rode the acquisition, and and you're now with the with the main company or what what what what they've become, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Correct, yes. Yes. So we were acquired in 2021, and then Acusource HR has become the main company, and we have been acquiring other companies and and growing. We've been in growth mode, which is very, very exciting.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, even more for in-house counsel to do. Yes. Well, that is a long, long, involved, and and very accomplished journey. So congratulations, particularly and and I can't get over it. As a lawyer, you know, the idea of going to law school at night and holding a full-time job and the rest of your life is just really something to be proud of. So congratulations on that. So, so in the your career path as you've gone through all this, do you want to give a shout out to any mentors or any influencers in your career that helped you get to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, yes. Um, so I mentioned Brenda Pataka earlier. She was one of my managers at AISS, which is always there for me, always rooting me on early in my career, especially when, as you mentioned, going to law school and working full-time, doing everything, law review was very tough. So definitely was just a huge cheerleader. And then with AcuSource HR, Nancy Golden, she was the one who hired me in. And then as I was promoted up within the company, and then we became colleagues. Just has always been a great mentor at first and a great colleague and friend and great person to bounce ideas off of. Because even being in house counsel and compliance, you still need people to go bounce ideas off of. And we've um always thought very similarly about things. So it's been great to have her to bounce ideas off of.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, oh, that's fantastic. You know, as you've gone through this career path, is there an early lesson that uh comes to mind that early in your career that has stuck with you?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yes. So when I was an early manager, kind of just getting my feet wet, one of the most important lessons that I was taught was when you have a problem and you're going to your upper manager, don't just go with the problem. Make sure that you at least come with a potential solution or two so that way you're not taking your issue and expect them to solve it. Even if you don't have the answer and you definitely need the assistance with it, at least have the thoughts and come with a problem-solving mindset. That has been very critical for me throughout the remainder of my career so far, and it's been very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_01

Boy, I I I have to uh really you know just double down on that because I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that so far, but boy, I I mean as a former owner operator, to me, the most valuable people in the company were people who you know were were welcome to escalate, but when they came in and and they with no clue at all as to where to go, just here, be you know, put this on my desk, you know, you know, that's like, yeah, that that's not as helpful. But but someone comes in, like you said, and they have a suggestion, you know, good, bad, or indifferent, at least they they've thought it through, they owned it or or an approach, that's that's the person that you want to cultivate and hire and or cultivate and and promote. So that is such a great career lesson for everyone listening to never toss a problem upstairs that you haven't thought through and and at least have a suggestion. And and it may not be the right suggestion, it doesn't matter. It's just the fact that you've showed some initiative and ownership and and you you tried to puzzle it out, and you also have the presence of mind to know that you weren't sure if you were right. So that's fantastic. That's great advice.

SPEAKER_00

And of course, there there may always be situations where you have to escalate something immediately because of the nature of the problem, especially in a compliance or legal setting, because it could be a very urgent situation. But at least say, like FYI, this is what's going on. I want you to be aware of this, but I am working on it and I will come to you with an action plan or potential solutions as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that that that is great advice. I hope everyone listening really takes that into account. So that's great. So given the fact that you're uh an accomplished attorney, that you've you know been inside the industry, outside the industry, you obviously could do or go anywhere you wanted to. What is your passion that has kept you in the background screening industry? Why background screening when as opposed to anything else in the world that you could do?

SPEAKER_00

I've had this conversation a bunch of times with colleagues and and even with my team at Acusaurce HR, my director ports. And I feel that once you're in the industry, it kind of just keeps you in because it's it's so interesting. It's the investigation, it's it's the finding the details, it's the needing to know what's going on. I almost feel like there's almost a nerdiness to it. Like I get so excited, like if I'm working with operations on an identifier case, and and it's like, did we just find like a partial social security number so we can actually report this case? Like digging deep down and and finding the detail. Like usually I'm not that granular because of the level of my role. But when I get to dig down and go back to my investigative roots, I get so excited about it. And even like with the level of contracting, yes, there's the typical standard contract clauses that are typical to every type of contract, no matter what type of law or industry you're in. But then there's the clauses that are very typical to our industry, that most clients have no clue why they're in there. And then getting on a call with them and explaining why they're so important and why they can't red line them out. And it's so helpful to explain that to them rather than going back and forth with red lines.

SPEAKER_01

So that's so interesting. Every once in a while, uh when I was still more active, I would see some attorney who redlined every FCRA required clause, and they had to go back to it and say, Well, uh, that has to be there. And why? Well, that's you know, the LAW, that's the law. People don't understand that. So anyway, so yeah, it's uh it is interesting. All the different hats you get to wear, and all the different ways you can interact with change and and the like you said, the granularity of an investigation. And it involves, particularly in your role as in-house counsel, it just involves uh basically everything's under your purview eventually.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

So that's amazing. You know, one of the things that's so interesting, too, is that that your career is basically been based in Cleveland. And in in thinking about all the podcasts we've done, I would have to say that if we did a geographic survey, I would say most the the single largest city that has provided a guest for this program is Cleveland.

SPEAKER_00

I know.

SPEAKER_01

You know, we've had Kill Yu Bill, we've had Andrew Cashman, Kurt Schwab, Jason, Kevin Bachman will be on at some point, another another Cleveland person. So what's it about Cleveland that it produces background screening? Is there something in the water or is it the rock hall? What is it?

SPEAKER_00

I I don't know. I I'm I'm not sure, but yes, yeah, because I could think of at least at least four background screening companies. Like thinking back, I think several of them were acquired.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I left out Jason Morris, who's from Cleveland as well, and a voice green too. Yeah. So do all you Cleveland folks get together occasionally, or you run into each other.

SPEAKER_00

So I know on LinkedIn there was a few posts about a get-together locally. I wasn't able to go, but I definitely do want to go to those get togethers in the future. Yeah, but yes, they do they do local get togethers because there's so many of us like in the Cleveland area. And yeah, I I don't know what it is about Cleveland and why there were so many screening companies up here.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there's other things to do. I mean, there's there's a professional Football, there's a great baseball stadium, there's the rock hall, there's the great lakes, but somehow background screening is way up there. I don't know why like Cleveland seems to be the epicenter of background screening in the U.S., but that's that seems to be the way it works. So so uh uh other than the uh the joys of living in Cleveland and all the other background screenings, as you think back in your career before we talk about as we always do, your you know your involvement in PBSA, what would be a proud moment you would share? We've talked about when you found out you passed the bar. That's obviously like, yay, all right. But in addition to that, any other moments that come to mind and bring a smile to your face and in terms of a I guess maybe a professional accomplishment at this point that we'll we'll pivot shortly.

SPEAKER_00

Being able to speak at more events, especially PBSA conferences, not only is it a great moment professionally, but also personally as well. I know this may seem strange because I'm literally speaking on a podcast right now, but I actually get nervous about public speaking. Again, very strange. So going and speaking in front of a bunch of people at PBSA conferences is something that I have to talk myself into each time I go and do it. But I love doing it. I love sharing knowledge. But that's one of that's something that I'm proud of both personally and professionally. I remember when I was on the end user employer side, the screening company I used back then, they would talk about going to conferences. And I remember thinking, I'd love to go to a conference. And that was before end users, I believe, went to conferences. And let alone imagine speaking at a conference. And now I've spoken at several conferences, and it's just just such a great professional moment for me.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's fantastic. I mean, I I mean I have to share with you that I have done a lot of public speaking at at one point in my career. I I think for a 10 or 12 year period, I spoke at Cherm either one, two, or three shows every year without interruption. You know, lots and lots of people. And I was nervous every single time. It's just, it's just it's just even though I knew this, I knew it by heart, I was very confident, I've done it, you know, hundreds and hundreds of times. You you still get nervous. It just doesn't. It's I I think it's just contrary to the human experience to stand up in front of a bunch of people and and or or electronically and and talk with and if you're not a little nervous, I'd be it'd be like, how can you not be nervous? Or or something like something of that nature. Anyway, though that's fantastic. And so you've been on PBSA, you spoke at a PBSA conference, I remember. Correct? Yeah, that's right. And and uh probably on a variety of subjects.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

You know, related to what what compliance and changes in the law and everything else under the sun, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, typically like clean slate, limiting how far back individual or background screening companies can report information. I'm gonna be speaking at mid-year coming up about applicant services and disputes, kind of leading a workshop for background screening companies about how to approach those kind of a hands-on learning experience. So really, really excited about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I guess that's you know, going back to the idea of why the screening industry, I think you represent the the best of the of the attitude of the screening industry that although you're in-house for a particular firm, that you're willing to share with with all your all the other firms, you know, potentially competitors, best practices. And so speak on that. I mean, how's that work into your approach, your philosophy?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, ultimately, and and this is kind of the goal of PBSA. Ultimately, I mean, yes, we're competitors, but we all need to comply with the same requirements, and we're all trying to figure things out. And same thing with access issues. We're all trying to help each other get access to data. We're all facing the same issues. So why why not help each other?

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly right. I mean, we're we're competitors, but but when we all get together, we're all we're all in the same boat, right?

SPEAKER_00

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Well, so you mentioned PBSA and access issues and and mentioned speaking about at PBSA. Tell us about the role PBSA has played in your career and and what you've done with PBSA and and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00

So PBSA has always been of interest to me. As I mentioned earlier, I had heard about PBSA kind of in the background when I was in the industry when I was in law school, when I worked for AISS and then Sterling. But of course, being like in the criminal records department, we didn't have too much involvement with PBSA at that level. So the first time I really started like going to the PBSA website and hearing about PBSA was when I was on the end user side. And I had very, very much wanted to go to conferences. I heard about how great they they were, the education, and I would typically receive some of that benefit from the screening company that we were using at the time. And they would provide like this is what we heard, this is what Pam was saying, this is what Scott was saying. So we would receive great information. And then when I went to AcuSource and started working there, it was amazing because I got to start going to conferences and receive education. I got to start going directly to the website, watch webinars, receive the different handouts and whatnot. One of the best things I've been able to do recently is join the South Carolina Sub Access Committee to be able to assist and hopefully drive some of the access back to the redacted addresses.

SPEAKER_01

So really quick, what's what's happening in South Carolina that you're involved in?

SPEAKER_00

So South Carolina previously on the court website, background screening companies have been able to access the full address for court cases. However, at the beginning of the year, due to a bill that had passed, they removed access to all addresses. So currently on the website now for court cases, we can only access a name and year of birth, which of course doesn't meet maximum possible accuracy. And there's a number of courts who refuse to help at all with providing access to identifiers. And there are some courts that will help, but it's creating an issue with reporting. And the interesting thing is the law that had gone into place was only meant to allow law enforcement and related parties to request redaction of their addresses off of records. But the the administrative office of courts removed all addresses from the cases. So they took it a step further.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Yeah, I mean we talk about the law of unintended consequences. So you have employers who want to hire people, you have people who want to get hired, and then the legislature just throws a without probably thinking about it or realizing or understanding it, you know, the powers that be just throw a wrench in the whole system. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, absolutely. So we are working on a couple of fronts to try to have access restored and hopefully, healthy it will work.

SPEAKER_01

Good luck, because that will not that obviously benefits the entire country. So I mean you know, employers and screening firms everywhere. So yeah, that's a great example of what PBSA does. So so are you gonna be at PBSA conferences this year?

SPEAKER_00

I'm yes. So I'm gonna be at mid-year for only about a full 24 hours just just to present and and to be around for part of it. I have little kids as I'll kind of discuss a little bit later. So travel sometimes is a little bit iffy for me just because of family obligations. But yes, I will be in mid-year and then for annual, I should be at the entire annual conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's fantastic. Okay, well, let's move on then from uh background screening and PBSD. Let's talk about life beyond screening. Tell us about hobbies or interests or little kids or whatever you want to share.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, so I have two littles. I have a seven-year-old son, and my daughter is almost three.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, great ages, fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, she definitely keeps me busy. She she is a firecracker. And my son is absolutely amazing. Yeah, they're both great kids. So definitely spend lots of time with them, my husband, family stuff.

SPEAKER_01

So they're they're not quite on the route of being on on sports or activities or events that require you to go somewhere every weekend, but uh that could be in your future.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. My son desperately wants to play soccer, so I think we're gonna be signing him up here soon for soccer.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's fantastic. So, so in addition to a three-year-old and a seven-year-old, and what other things do you do, hobbies or interests that are fun outside outside of the uh background screening world?

SPEAKER_00

So I love home improvement projects. But at my old house, I painted our kitchen cabinets and I also put in a subway tile backsplash in our kitchen.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

I I love home improvement projects. So in our new house, our current house, we are gonna have our basement finished by a contractor. But it's possible that I may get to do, and I know it sounds weird that I'm excited about this. I might get to do the flooring installation. So I am really, really excited, really, really excited about it because I haven't gotten to do any home improvement projects in like three years. So I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Well, if you ever come to California, my my my house needs lots of improvement. And I uh my idea of home improvement is finding a contractor, but that's great. All right.

SPEAKER_00

I love it, love it, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh. All right. I mean, putting it in a backsplash is no small thing. Demolishing what was there, prepping the surface, you know, you know, having to put in whatever material you're using, put that in and apply it perfectly, and and all the little nooks and crannies and corners. So no small feet.

SPEAKER_00

I was a little sad when we sold our house because it was beautiful. It was it was white subway tile, and I did dark gray ground. It was so beautiful. So beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. So you you you have a secret life as a as a do-it-yourselfer home flipper type person.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01

So so let me just take a wild guess that that at night you're when the kids are in bed, you're you're glued to the latest HGTV. Um, you know, flip that house, love it or leave it or love it, or love it or sell it, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00

Love it or list it. I used to like it.

SPEAKER_01

Love it or list it, right? Oh, that's a riot. Oh, so you so you're down there in your work clothes and you're you're you're grouting and cutting tiles and picking the right grout and getting it perfectly. That's amazing. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, definitely at the old house. Definitely at the old house. I definitely had the the scruffy hands and the cuts on my hands from the subway tile to prove it.

SPEAKER_01

All right. And so in your new house, I mean, I'm I'm kind of a you know a junkie on this because I because we watch it all the time. So if you're gonna put in the flooring yourself with like a laminate or a wood or what kind of kind of flooring?

SPEAKER_00

Luxury vinyl plank because it's very durable and it clicks together. So I think that's going to be the best option.

SPEAKER_01

There you go. Actually, and and you can't really, if anything goes wrong, you can't really sand it out, but you probably don't need to. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Worst case, if we get extra, we could always replace it.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly right. Well, you're the first person I've talked to that is a a a do-it-yourself project for that's fantastic. I admire that. All right. I try to stay away from that. I actually know how to do some of that stuff. Like I can hang a door and do all sorts of stuff, but but I don't want to let my wife know because if I if I revealed to her that I actually can do stuff, then it's like, well, you do it. And I know I'll want to call a contractor. Yeah. So I have a deal with painters. They don't practice law, I don't practice painting. It seems to work out. But so that that's really fun. So so in that vein, you may have already done it, but is there a fun fact? We're you know, time to play fun facts. Or you want to share something about yourself that outside of the industry that people may not know, and and of course, once they do know, they'll they'll harass you relentlessly at PBSA conferences.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I have two things, and I think these are actually crazier than the um do-it-yourself house thing. So I used to play bass in a heavy metal band.

SPEAKER_01

What? I'm sorry. I thought I heard you say that you used to play bass in a heavy metal band, but I obviously misheard you.

SPEAKER_00

Nope, that is true. I used to play bass and a heavy metal band.

SPEAKER_01

That is outrageous. What what is true? All right, tell us more. I mean, you can't leave us hanging. Where? What? Local? Where'd you where'd you guys do your gigs? What was the deal?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was local. Cleveland also has a very healthy music scene. I was in my early 20s. It was leading into law school, and I also did it during my first year of law school, and then it got too busy, so I ended up not doing it anymore.

SPEAKER_01

How'd you pick up the bass then? How'd you become a bass player?

SPEAKER_00

I've always been very musical. I don't really do music too much anymore just because I don't have time, but I used to sing, play piano, violin, trumpets. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. Violin, trumpet?

unknown

All right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's um that's amazing. So were you a a high school musician? Were you in the in the band and what instrument?

SPEAKER_00

So I stopped playing trumpet because I didn't like it very much. So my high school didn't have an orchestra, which was why I started playing trumpet to try to become involved with band, because my high school did have a band, but didn't like it very much. So in high school, I was involved with choir, drama, musicals. And then that's when I think I was probably junior when I started learning how to play guitar a bit. I don't remember. I think I was probably in college when I started picking up bass a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Do you still have your bass?

SPEAKER_00

I do. I still have, I think I have three basses in the house and a guitar. My husband played in a way a whole lot more bands than I did. So and we expect our kids to be musical just based on us being musical. So we're convinced.

SPEAKER_01

Well then you really must love the rock haul because they have they have Jerry Garcia's old guitar, they have you know uh guitars from everybody and a lot of bass guitars as well. That's great. Yes. So when you go there, that must be really special. All right. Yes. All right. Is there is there a YouTube link of of of Jennifer Damon playing bass guitar in a heavy metal band that you want to share with the world? All right. Or you want to hide that?

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna hide that because you can only find it through the band name. And it's funny because my one colleague has tried finding it and she hasn't yet. So but I think I have shared it with one coworker. So they can confirm it does exist. I'm not making it up.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Well, folks, we're gonna leave you with a little bit of mystery. If you can find Jennifer Damon's rock, heavy metal rock band that she played in college and find the YouTube clip. I'm not sure what the what the reward will be, but you'll have the the pleasure of being an investigator extraordinaire. That's that's amazing. I I mean that's jaw-droppingly amazing, and all the music and things, but being in a Revy band. I think you said there were two things. Was there, I mean, I don't know what could top that. Was there a second one you were going to share?

SPEAKER_00

I also I haven't been able to do it in a while because young kids and typically you do this overnight, but I also love ghost hunting.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. I I I mean, for those of you out there who think that in-house lawyers are boring or not that interesting, here is a heavy metal bassist who ghost hunts overnight. All right. So I alright, I'm all ears. My jaw is dropping, and you you gotta tell us at least one story that would that stands out.

SPEAKER_00

You've seen the movie Shaw Shank Redemption, correct?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The prison where they filmed it is the old Ohio State Reformatory in Mansfield, Ohio. Beautiful, beautiful building. You can do overnight ghost hunts there. I and I live probably about an hour from Mansfield.

SPEAKER_01

So the prison is closed now. I mean, they they filmed it. I think I think it was closed when they filmed it with you know, you know, it's supposed to be one of the best movies of all time. But so you actually gone there and and spent overnight and and to hear prisoners who died walking the rattling the bars and and and and and walking the uh the cages or the walk the row or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I haven't heard anything. At least if I did, it was probably like an animal, because of course animals can get in. But like when you walk in, there's just such a like like just a weird sense, like just a heavy, like anxiety-filled feeling that you can just feel, like you can tell stuff happened there.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but I think I've been there for overnight ghost hunts at least three or four times. And my most recent, you can pay for a private night, a private ghost hunt, which my friend bought. So there were eight of us total in the entire building, and it was the most amazing experience. So amazing.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, I mean, are there you know temperature changes or odd noises or you know, or uh do you guys have the ghost meters and the when there's paranormal activity and the meters start to you know go up, that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so if you are serious about it, you do have those things. A lot of the equipment gets very expensive, of course, but but yes, you can definitely tell there can be temperature changes, like you could walk from one area to another and the temperature can drop. Yeah, you can hear weird sounds from different areas. And it is strange because you can um walk from one area of the building to another and feel very emotional for no reason. Like you can feel fine, and the next minute you feel very sad, or you can all of a sudden smell something. It's very it's a very strange experience, and there's nothing there, like there's no like random plug-ins or anything like that you can like see that they would put there like to smell like because of course you're suspicious if you smell something. Like, did they plant something here? Because of course, you know, attorney suspicious. We're all suspicious, right? But yeah, it's it's it's just an amazing experience, just beautiful building, amazing building. Yeah, very cool experience.

SPEAKER_01

Well, but my jaw is dropping even further. So that's right. So you can smell, you can feel, you could, you know, some people report it, you know, kind of uh uh uh the the slightest of touch on your hair or things like that. So you have you had an experience in your ghost hunting where you thought, oh my god, I I really have uh penetrated a a mystery here that that that there's no earthly known explanation for.

SPEAKER_00

I mean just the sense that they were not good people there. Like I haven't like seen anything or or like heard voices, but like listening back to voice recordings, you can kind of hear things that you didn't hear in the moment.

SPEAKER_01

But then there's supposed to be yeah. Yeah, they can record it and you pay and you play it back, and they're you know odd sounds and and wow. Oh my god. Well, who whoever thought that corporate attorneys were boring they they've never talked to you before. All right. That's amazing. All right. So and and and in when you do the overnight, do you bring your own food? Are there facilities? Do you get a cot? I mean, how does that work? Or you just stay up all night hoping you are able to leave the next day? I mean, what happens?

SPEAKER_00

So it depends where you're going, but usually when you stay overnight at that specific location, usually they provide you with like pizza and some snacks and stuff. And they, of course, do have restrooms and in a specific location, and they don't provide anywhere for you to sleep because the goal is you're there to be there. But of course, you can leave whenever you want, but then you can't come back in. Like once you leave, you you don't come back.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's not like Hotel California. You can leave whatever time you want. You can check out whatever time you want, but you can never leave. You can actually leave.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So you can definitely Jennifer, you have you have blown my mind. I have like I just don't even know what to say or where to go from there. That's amazing. So there's now a mission out there for all the listeners for this podcast. I want to see Jennifer Damon's tape of her doing a heavy rock. Are you are you you are you in a special costume or anything? I mean, are you recognizable?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean, I was I was like 20, 21 back then, probably. So I don't think I looked that much different on A2 back then. It's not like I was wearing any weird costumes or anything.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Well, that's an industry assignment. I mean, I I challenge the entire screen industry to find that tape and we'll we will apply it. And Jennifer thinks it's it's it's hidden and no one's gonna find it, so we will see. All right. Okay, well, I think we've exhausted that. If there's a third thing, I I I don't know. But uh that's fantastic. Well, thank you for sharing. With everything you've told us and all the experiences you've had, what would be your advice for uh newcomers in the industry or people that have been in the industry who want to advance? Maybe they've been in a you know, they're brand new or they've been in it a couple of years, or maybe they're you you know they're in criminal records of verifications or not it on the management side or but they still want to get involved. What what would you tell them to do? Or what do you tell people in your own firm to do if they want to to make the industry a career and move up and and and get involved and have a chance for you know to to rise up and with and have greater responsibilities and greater exposures? What do you think? What would you tell them to do?

SPEAKER_00

So for those who are newer to the industry, or even if you're like moving departments and changing job roles, it can be very, very overwhelming, especially if you're newer with the amount of knowledge and the amount of things that you have to learn, especially when you're brand new. I remember first coming into the industry, we had an entire training program about what to learn, the different laws, the reportability, identifiers. It's gonna be overwhelming, but you will get it down. Just focus, look at the resources. Even if things change, that's typical. It'll be fine. Just ask questions. Asking questions is very important. Do not be afraid to ask questions. I've been in the industry for it's approaching 20 years at this point, I believe. I still ask questions all the time. You're not gonna know everything. I don't know everything.

SPEAKER_01

That's and that's it. Ask questions and keep getting involved. And and I would add, maybe you know, connect with people. So you're in Cleveland. I know it's it's it's Kevin Herville and Andrew Cashman who I think posted about getting together, and uh which I think is great for so you know people you know can you that are geographically close if there's you know a hot bit of screening like Cleveland can get together. So I mean it'd be another way just to drop in and and just talk to people and then learn and hear and see and raise your hand and get involved. Well, this is great, and I really appreciate everything you shared with us, and this has just been fascinating. That's the fun part of these podcasts is that it never fails that when I talk to someone who I thought you know pretty much knew or knew about, that all of a sudden it's like, wow, a a heavy metal bass player who goes ghost hunting. It's like, all right, I did not see that coming. All right, that's fantastic, as well as an accomplished, distinguished attorney in the industry. So it's fantastic. So, Jennifer, before we we we wrap up here, let me turn it over to you for any last word. The any closing thoughts or anything you'd like to add? The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_00

Just thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun, really great experience, and just very grateful to be a part of this industry. It's a great industry with really great people. And just again, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01

Well, no, and thank thank you for being here and thank and thank you for sharing. This has been fascinating. Ladies and gentlemen, we've had the opportunity behind the screens, of course, another shout out again to Barry Nixon, the pre-employment director, who our sponsors, to talk to a distinguished in-house attorney who has a fascinating lifetime, life outside of screening. It's been a pleasure to talk to Jennifer Damon. And Jennifer, thank you for being with us today.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much, Les.

SPEAKER_01

And stay tuned because the next episode that comes out in a couple weeks, we'll start over again and have another experience with yet another background pro. So, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for watching. All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions, or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host, Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.

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Les Rosen

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