Episode 59: Mind the Gap: The Human Connection in a Digital Screening World

In this international edition of Behind the Screens, I’m joined by the leadership team of the PBSA Europe & Africa Council: Martin Hardy, Will Hogarth, and Sally Ott-Lacoste.

We explore how each of them entered the background screening industry, what keeps them passionate about it, and how the industry continues to evolve across Europe and Africa. We also preview the upcoming PBSA Europe & Africa Summit in London and discuss why this event is becoming essential for professionals who want to grow their network, knowledge, and global impact.

Beyond compliance and accreditation, this episode is about leadership, community, adaptability, and the human responsibility behind screening.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

1. How Martin, Will, and Sally entered the background screening industry
2. The evolving role of startups, tech innovation, and social media vetting
3. Why trust, honesty, and context are essential in screening
4. What PBSA represents across Europe and Africa
5. How global accreditation strengthens best practices
6. What makes the PBSA Europe & Africa Summit a must-attend event
7. Why networking is not optional if you want to grow in this industry
8. How to build meaningful connections, even with competitors
9. The biggest lessons these leaders have learned about integrity and fairness
10. Why curiosity and adaptability are critical for long-term success

What We Discuss About the PBSA Europe & Africa Summit

•   The 2026 Summit theme and agenda direction
• Why education and networking are equally important
• How sponsors contribute to the long-term growth of the industry
• The importance of walking away with new connections and fresh ideas
• Why making one new meaningful relationship can change your career

This Episode Is for You If:

• You work in background screening and want a global perspective
• You’re considering attending the PBSA Europe & Africa Summit
• You want to move into leadership roles within the industry
• You’re building or growing a screening business
• You believe screening is about more than data; it’s about responsibility
• You want to stay relevant in a rapidly evolving regulatory and tech landscape

We also lighten things up with a speed round covering mentors, proud moments, life outside screening, Lindy Hop dancing, sailing, and even brass band busking.

This episode reminds us that behind every screening report is a human decision, and behind every successful screening company is a community.

If you are part of this industry, this conversation is worth your time.

See you next time on Behind the Screens.

Connect with US:

• Les Rosen- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesterrosen/
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/@BehindtheSCreens200

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another session of Behind the Screens, the hidden world of background checks and background screening. And I am more than delighted that today we continue the tradition of having some real marvelous guests and some very accomplished people. And in fact, today we have a panel that will be coming to us from across the pond from the UK and France in anticipation of the PBSA Europe and Africa Summit, which is taking place at the Barbican Center in London, May 18th and 19th. So we're going to meet some really great people who are heavily involved in the PBSA Council and are involved in that particular event that I urge everyone to go to. So it's my pleasure to tell you that today we have with us Mr. Martin Hardy, who is the past chair of the PBSA Europe Africa Council. We have Mr. Will Hogarth, and I hope I'm pronouncing all the names right, who is the current chair and events chairman. And we have Sally OtlaCoste, who is the future chairs. So we are sharing the chairing here. We have past, future, and present. So with that, let me introduce our guests, and we'll start with our first question to each of them. Where are you calling from? Where are you today? Where in the world are you? So let's let's start with Martin. Martin, Hardy, tell us where you where are you today? Where are you situated?

SPEAKER_03 2:20

So let's see, thanks thanks for inviting us along to the podcast. Been really looking forward to this. A great run-up to the PBSA conference in May. I'm calling from the UK. I'm in a little place called Bedford, Bedford City or town. That's a little bit north of London. So I work remotely most of the time, as does most of my team. So that's one of the perks of kind of building a digital first business like we do with SP Index. The office, if you like, changes quite a lot. So remote work definitely suits us as a company, and that's because we live in the online risk world. So thanks again, Les, for inviting us. I'm looking forward to participating.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Oh, that's great. I actually had lunch in Bedford last year. Oh, fun jumping. I've spent overnight there. And it's uh you have to go, I can't remember the train station, but there's a two two train lines that go there, and you have to navigate that. And so anyway, welcome, Martin Harney from Bedford. And we also have with us the current chair of the PBSA Council at Europe and Africa, and the events chair, Mr. Will Hugarth. Will, where are you calling? Where are you today? Where are we listening to you from?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

So I'm the other one who's he's from the UK. So I'm down in Portsmouth, which is about an hour outside London, well known for its maritime history. So we've got a big naval base, lots of sailing going on. So conversation turns to boats and sailing, that's why. Yeah, so you also run a company called Checksbut. So we're the youngest background check company in the UK. I think I can still say that. Only about a year old, after about 15 years of one of the larger ones. So yeah, also remote first, because there's only a few of us in the company.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Well, we'll talk about that later. We'll talk about where where which you all come from. But Plymouth is near Portsmouth is near Plymouth, right? Not that far.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Plymouth's not well, when you talk about the states, things are close to each things are close to each other, even though they're hours apart. In the UK, hours apart is like quite far. So I'd say it's quite far, but yeah, in the grand scheme of things, it's standard.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

I've been to Portsmouth, I've been to Plymouth. And mainly I've been to the distillery for if you're if you're a gin drinker and in in and you like dry London, Plymouth gin, it's great. So that's welcome from Plymouth and Sally Lacoste. Sally, where are you talking to us from this morning? Or this after this evening, your time.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yes, this evening. Hi, Lister. Thank you for having us. So I am calling in from Tours in France. So it's about an hour train ride from Paris. So I'm in the castle region. It's really nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Oh, it's fantastic. I mean, I always think of Tours because Charles of Tours, you know, from a little bit of European history, and you get to visit all the chateaus, and you're not that far from Normandy. So wow. Well, this is this is a great group. So listen, let me first start off with our opening question. Let's let's go into a little bit more detail as to what your current role is, what you currently do professionally, and then after that, we'll do the second round and talk about your career path. So we're gonna start with Will this time. Go back a little bit more and tell us about what you're currently doing, what you like about it, and what you find interesting.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

I kind of touched on some of this already, but have just started a uh new background checking company. So I'm CEO of that organization, a company called Checksperts. So yeah, we're kind of just finding our feet, trying to do things a little bit differently, super exciting. We for us we focus a little bit more on the kind of supply chain elements, so not just employee vetting, but the supply chain of companies and making sure they're vetted, especially for like secure size. So yeah, be it being a startup, it's a little bit hands-on, a little bit of everything, which I I love. I just I just love being hands-on with it. So what one day I'm doing screening checks and the other day I'm doing marketing. So yeah, very varies.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

A well-worn career path that many of us are familiar with. And Sally, tell us uh what you're currently doing.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, so I currently work at a company called Verit Decluma, and I'm the international account manager. So we are specialized in diploma verifications, and so I tend to take care of all of our international clients and institutional partners. So I really enjoy the international aspect of my role. Absolutely. Well, we have a coverage all around the world, so I find that really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Oh, that's fantastic. That's great. And then Martin, what are you doing these days?

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Yes, I'm the founder and executive director for well, we actually run two brands, SP Index, Social People Index, and also the Right to Socials, which is a consumer brand. Uh, we focus quite heavily on the OCIT, open source intelligence and social media checking background. The company I set up about 15 years ago, 2010 now, most people say, Wow, the social media vetting has been around since 2010. That's correct. I can confirm it's 15 years old. So we were the first in Europe to establish a company for social media vetting, and basically I'm still actively involved in the business as executive director, and it really interests me how the online behaviors become part of the everyday risk decisions in the industry, and that's why I'm still in it, that's why I'm still invested so much in it. It's really shifting from this blunt tool of checking, you know, verification into something much more thoughtful and balanced. So we've got the situation today where social media checks used to be about protecting companies, and now they're just as much about protecting candidates. It's not about what you find online, it's how you interpret it. And there's our passion, and that's what we do as a business, and that's where I sit.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Well, all three of you are very busy and in and very hands-on the industry. So, what we'd like to talk about are are it's always interesting to me to find about people's career paths, how they got from here to there. And I'd like to ask you each about your journey and where you started from and how you got to where you are today. I think this one is time to start with Sally. Sally, you you you seem to my ear, at least to my one good ear, to have kind of an American accent, but you're in Paris. Now you're we're an hour from Paris, so you're in Tours. Tell us how did you end up there? Where did you start and how did you get to where you are now?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yes, so I am American. I grew up in the U.S. I grew up in South Carolina, and I went to college at the College of Charleston, and I got a double bachelor's degree there, one in supply chain management, and then the other in French and Francophone studies. And so that's what brought me to France initially was a study abroad with that degree, and ended up loving it. Ended up coming back to France, and I had a couple of internships, ended up doing a master's degree at a school here, and found a job in the background screening industry. So that's how I ended up in France. So now I'm doing my life here, living and working and really enjoying it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Oh, that's fantastic. So from Charleston, South Carolina, it was just a wonderful city now to tour. So that's congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

And if I got my order right, Martin, what was your career path? How did you know in the third grade you were gonna be a background screener, or did that kind of occur to you later?

SPEAKER_03 9:33

I think I've never met somebody yet that started life to say I'm gonna be in background screening. So I'm the same. I'm actually a finance guy originally in my background. So I'm a fellow of the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, also Global Management Account Accreditation. So finance and accountancy is my background. I spent six years in brewing first, the brewing industry, then moved to 25 years in aviation, and then about 15 years ago, I was started in the background screening. And really, it was the aviation sector that led me into the background screening, where you know I could see that the exposure that was in the airlines and the growth of social media, that combined risk, many things happening back in early 2000s when in the aviation security sector. And then I put the two together, and here we are today with a social media screening company, which I fully love. And yeah, so that's my kind of background. Traveled internationally, business development in international markets. Our company is in at least eight countries at the moment. So, yeah, that's my journey.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Okay. Wow, that's interesting. You've been in lots of industries, and you you landed up here, and apparently you like it because you're still here. And Will, what about you? What was your your path? How did you uh start off and what did you do wrong? I mean, what did you do to end up in the back in the background screening world?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

So I've actually just learned something about Martin, but so I had a degree in finance and accounting, so I didn't know we shared that. Then whilst I was finding a real job, I needed a job for some beer money, and there was a company about 30 seconds from my front door, and that was a company called Security Watchdog, which was a background checking company. I'm really nosy as a person, not because I got a big nose, just my my nature. So I just loved it. I just loved the people that were there, the culture that was there. The job was interesting. Yeah, 15 years later, I I was still there, but I was had worked up to be operations director. So had had done a mix of kind of customer-facing roles, operational roles, product roles, which made it the perfect storm that when the business was bought, when there was an opportunity to leave, that sell it's my my own business. So yeah, something I always wanted to do was run my own business, it just made sense to stay in background checking. Oh, that's that's great.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Well, the three of you certainly have have interesting career paths, and it's fascinating to hear. The common denominator is that all three of you could have done and and can do lots of different things, and you you've chosen to enter background screening and stay in background screening. Let me put this out here as a group question. What do you enjoy about working in the industry? What's your passion about being involved in background checks? And whoever wants to jump in, jump in.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

I think for me it's uh it's about how the industry is maturing. I mean, I was completely new to it in 2010. That's the first kind of time I really got involved at all. And since then, especially again, I'm gonna say it again, especially in the open source intelligence and the and the online space, it's it's advanced incredibly and still is. And now the whole industry is now talking about the latest developments of AI and online platforms and social media vetting has become a natural, a normal vetting process for many, many organizations now, and certainly for all the background screening companies carrying them out. So it's really maturing, in particular in the in the specific niche I'm in. It's maturing. We're moving away from this tick box kind of exercise into genuine risk management, like I say, particularly with social media, social media screenings growing up, is what I like to say, and it had to, it had to, because it used to be very much about you know what somebody's done, black or white, you know, and now it's more about a judged, you know, representation of both the candidate and the risk to the employer. So I think it's maturing, and that that's what has kind of got me hooked on the industry, the the developments of the and and Sally and Will, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

How about you guys? What has you hooked on the industry?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

I'll say so super similar. That's what mine said about technologies uh really beaming like an ex-product guy. I agree, it's almost like the industry's so mature in some ways, and its processes, its ways of working, and then technology's coming along and kind of going, you can rethink this. So you you still got that underlying we we have to be kind of trusted, etc. But now there's new ways to kind of establish that trust. So I find it super exciting. Sound LinkedIn, what watching what everyone's up to. Yeah, I think it's a really cool mix. The the other thing I think I'm passionate about the industry is the people in it. It it's one of the only kind of industries I've kind of come across where people actually want to help each other and support each other and work for each other. It seems to attract a certain type of individual, one that actually cares about other humans. In some industries, it's a bit more cutthroat, right? Ours we're far more collaborative.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Fantastic. And so I see you nodding a couple of times there. What's your attraction to the screening industry?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah, I'd say I I definitely agree with uh the human aspect of what Will was saying. I think for me, I really enjoy the international aspect of the industry and the role of screening in international mobility because I think that we have quite the role in allowing and promoting candidates to help them get a job internationally. Also within diploma verifications, there's diploma evaluations for visas. And I think that we have quite an interesting role in helping individuals within international mobility. So that's a super interesting role to have. I think that's what I enjoy most about the background screening industry.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Well, that's great. And that segues into my next question. Part of the industry is PBSA. You're obviously uh involved with PBSA. In a moment or two, we're gonna talk specifically about the upcoming conference and uh you know you know what to expect and why people should think about that. But let me ask you as a group again, just jump in. You're you're all members of the PBSA Europe Africa Council. What's been the role of PBSA in in your career professionally and in terms of meeting people or developing or that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Should we do past present future? That'd be nice. Well, I know we're a bit late for the Christmas Carol and that story, but let's do the uh past present future. So, I mean, I'll I'll kick in less less to less. So I'm I'm the former chair of Europe and Africa. I think I want to touch also, Will just mentioned about the collaboration opportunities in the industry. I think this is something where the PBSA plays a big part as a central gathering point, if you like, of all the background screeners. Take you back a couple of years and and and shout out to Susie Thompson. She was the chair previous to me. And actually, back then, I remember my first PBSA conference when I first started getting involved. That was in a little little place called Cranfield in just outside Bedford near me. And that conference had around about 45 attendees. Okay, so that's that's a kind of scale of it at the at that point. So that's now two or three years ago. And since then, the the the you know, the annual event we'll talk about shortly, I'm sure, has grown. Has grown. We've now seen more and more companies joining the events, we've seen more and more people. And the last conference which we managed to move first of all to Amsterdam and then to Paris in the next year. So we've had gone outside the UK, that was nearly a hundred attendees at that conference. So so you can see it's more than doubled in the last few years in terms of its attendees, and hence the collaboration opportunities have been you know tremendous during that point. Well, you know, why do I stay involved? Primarily because of that networking, the community, and the ability to share knowledge and you know, bring new ideas to the table within the industry. So, yeah, so it's a little bit addictive from that perspective, as as you'd probably found Lester, being you know, one of the founders.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Well and here you are, still here.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

You're right, you're right. Exactly. Who would have thought? And Will and Sally, how about your how about what's what PBSA meant to your career? Martin talked about the the cooperation and the sharing and uh getting to know people. Has that been true for you as well?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Definitely. So now I term it community. Like for me, it's like going to the PBSA events or or the calls that we have. Nowhere else can you tell jokes about GDPR and people get them and laugh, right? It just doesn't land the same within your own organisation. But when you're amongst the community, that all those jokes land well, they understand your challenges, you talk about your challenges together, and how are you implementing this technology? So in the UK, we've had like a big one of like a data source, government tax data source, and just being able to talk about how different people are implementing it together gives you a real sense of we're in it together, we're we're all trying to advance the industry together, which you wouldn't get anywhere else. Yeah, and then having a few drinks and swapping some funny stories about dodgy references you got, and you're always playing top trumps with like who's had the most ridiculous reference response ever. You just can do that elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Well, Sally, do you both find it's uh a kind of gives a place to slow down and think a little bit? But yeah, you know, especially when these events and conferences come along, it's really I find it's really a place where you you know slow down and you think about topics, and you know, quite often regulation is lagging behind. So the PBSA is almost defining what good looks like, right? Um you know, that collaboration and slowing down and thinking about what does good look like? And uh right. That's exactly what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

And Sally, you you you you get the follow these two gentlemen. You are the the chair of ac so when they you get to sit in their laurels, you get to take over. What about you? What's been the role of PBSA in your career?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, well, definitely echo what Martin and Will have just said about community and increasing your network, but I have to say there's been a large role in education about all the legislative changes in the global landscape of the background screening industry. Like Will was saying is that the PBSA sometimes, well really guides a lot of legislative initiatives and really helps us all become aware of the new changes that are going on in the industry. So it's definitely I would say that the network aspect has been really important as well as the educational aspect with legislative changes and and changes in all with product changes as well. So definitely a big role of education as well in PBSA.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So the PBSA, we we alluded to it, so let's jump into it directly. You have a great event coming up, Europe and Africa Conference being held at the Barbican Center May 18th and May 19th. And I guess I can say it, registration is now open. What's happening? What is all that about?

SPEAKER_02 20:59

So yeah, it's our first two-day event. So as Man said, we we had a really good response last year in Paris, and it was great, but the main feedback was people wanted more, more opportunity to network and discuss problems. So yeah, we're getting big bigger and better this year, returning to the UK, two-day event. Our theme for the event is human connections in a digital world. So it's all about okay, we spent lots of time talking about technology, what can we do with it? AI comes up a lot, but we we want to start moving that conversation to a little bit of where should humans still belong in in all of this? So, yes, we know technology can do quite a lot, but especially in background checking, w where does common sense still play a part?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Everyone mentions this AI thing. I suppose afterwards I'll have to Google that and find out what that's all about. But I've I've heard I I keep hearing the term, but if you wish anyway, I'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Some of it you'll you'll learn quite a lot, Les. So you're you're more than welcome to join us.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I I I guess I'll I'll have to use AI to find out what it what it is. But and and and and I love the uh the title. The subtitle is Mind the Gap. And of course, anyone who's spent any time in in London and on the tube will you you know, the all you ever hear and see is Mind the Gap, right?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

So mind the gap, the yi the the human connection in the digital world.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So we've got some fun entertainment. I think uh A APAC they they introduced some some fun entertainment into the sessions. So we've taken some inspiration uh from their conference last year. We won't ruin the surprise, we'll just say that there there will be entertainment as as part of our conference. There'll be usual kind of legislative updates. We've got some thought leadership speakers, so some well-known authors here within the HR industry are coming to do some I'll use the word provocative uh conversations. We've got debates happening, some of those assisted by AI. So using AI to kind of summarize our debates as as we debate. Yeah, lots. Marlene, Sally, help me out.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Lots and lots, plus networking. That's the only thing you missed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Sally, tell us about the networking.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Well, we have Yeah, we have got a pre-event, so it's the 17th, I believe. So we've got an event to allow people to network before the event gets started, and then we've also got another event on that Monday night. So those are dedicated events to networking, and then also throughout the conference, we've got some breaks integrated. So people will definitely have the time to get to know one another. So that's definitely an advantage of coming to the conference as well.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Yeah, and also a bit of fraud is thrown into the agenda. We've got a bit of mergers and acquisitions being uh talked about during the uh conference, and also I have to say a little bit of social media. Yeah, you put up.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

You keep mentioning social media. I actually I think I I'm the first person to actually have written a white paper on social media about 20 years ago, none of which applies today.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

But of course, Esther, what we want to achieve, you mentioned the uh you know mind the gap strapline there. So we want to change this uh memory of yours to away from the idea that mind the gap represents London, and actually to mind the gap represents PBSA conference May 2026. So when the first go-to should be, yeah, that was where we went to the PBSA in 2026. Mind the gap.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Mind the gap. Absolutely. So so let's take a second here, and uh I I'll I'll use my my my privilege of being the host to say that in my mind, I I cannot imagine that anyone can present themselves as a professional background screener and offer services and not be part of PBSA Europe-Africa and not go to the conference. But that's my personal prejudice. So you know, each of you maybe shoot out a reason if if someone is thinking of going, but they haven't quite decided what's in it for them, what's a good reason they they ought to be there? And we can we'll start with Sally. Why why why why should they go there? What would you tell somebody who says, uh it's time consuming, it's expensive, I have to travel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Well, I wouldn't tell them that. No, no, no. I I think well, honestly, from from my experience, you really learn a lot. I think with all the different companies that will be there across, there'll be representatives from Africa, from Europe, from the US, some from Asia. And I think with the people that are there, with the the conferences and the interesting topics, I think that you are bound to learn some very interesting and relevant information about what's happening in the background screening world currently. So, yeah, there's definitely a lot to learn. And I think that this conference puts all of the people in the same room that are decision makers and influencers in the industry all around the world. So you should be in that room.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

And and I think it considerably lessens the chance. I mean, in the US, we're worried about getting sued. In Europe, I'm not sure lawsuits are as big a concern as as government regulators doing nasty things to you. And and if you want to lessen your risk of that happening, you've got to go to these conferences. Will and Martin, what what would be your your advice to someone who is uh thinking about going? Why why should they go? For me, it's about it it widens your lens.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

So you learn so much and your teams learn so much. So when I first introduced to the conferences as a as a team member, as an employee, and it just opens my eyes. So then when I'm thinking about things in my day-to-day job, I understand the wider industry better. So I'm then better at my job and can become more strategic to support the business. So Sally's right, there's loads of content for business leaders, business owners. But for for your teams to come as well and have their minds open to the wider industry, meet other people in the industry, I think it's invaluable. You you can't you can't buy that kind of competitive advantage.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

And that's a great point. Not only should the executive team or someone from the executive team go, and certainly someone from appliance, but but but team members benefit as well. I mean, then you have a better educated team and you're just a better organization. And and Martin, as the past chair and having been involved in this so deeply, what would be your uh best advice for someone who's considering uh going?

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah, come for the conversation. Conversations are the most important thing, right? So I I think there's a saying, right? Is that is the the best ideas usually come after the slides are finished. So come come have a conversation with your peers in the industry, you know, especially those where where people admit that you know they're not prepared to admit what's not working yet. So that conversation starts the opening and starts, you know, new ideas on how things can be done. The industry, I mean, it might be worth just mentioning the the typical demographical the conference. You know, we we see all kinds of different demographics coming along to the conference. So, you know, senior members, senior CEOs, business owners, they're coming along to the conference conference. They're looking for all sorts of conversations, whether it be acquisitions, whether it be you know new markets to enter into. We get a lot of, let's say, the the other end of the spectrum, which is those who are new to the industry coming to learn, you know, working for background screen companies, they're just coming to build their skill set and learn more about the background checking industry. And then there's a whole bunch of everything between Sally's touched on the educational part. So you'll get compliance officers and you'll get, you know, people focused on the legal and compliance, as well as those in the operations and processing. Yeah. And then mixed up in that, some IT guys come along. And they they mash it all up and put it all together again. So the conversation brings it all together.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

That's right. And when the IT people come, then then you you know they actually go, oh, that's how that's what you're trying to do. Why are you telling me? All right, well, it's gonna be fun. So let's jump ahead and one final question about the conference. That and then I I should mention that I just saw on online here that it's always good that that there are sponsors of the conference. So this year it looks like it's iCover, Ferrettly, Con Confer, um, and Omni Data Retrieval are the are the ones that are online right now. Maybe there'll be more later. So obviously, I'm sure you're grateful to the sponsors as well. And if you haven't sponsored, you should, because where else can you get so many background screeners in the same place? It's you know that's what one of the advantages of PBSA and all the councils is is if you're a uh a sponsor or a vendor to the industry, you're able to get your message out. So, what are you each hoping to achieve when it's over? What what are you all hoping to go away with? Maybe now I I guess it's Martin's we'll go reverse order. Martin will and then Sally. Martin, at the end of it, what do you what do you hope to have happened? Or personally or professionally?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Yeah, so hopefully everything goes smoothly. I I also want to give a shout out to the sponsors, Lester. Not to underplay this, but you know, the sponsors are critical for these events. You know, they they help us put on a good show and they help us put a good agenda together and they drive the energy. So I think you know, a big shout out to the sponsors. What do I want to come away with from this conference, and what I would hope everybody else comes away with is new friends, new connections, new business ideas, new markets to uh explore. It is a Europe and Africa conference, so there will be a mix of across Europe and Africa in terms of topics and discussion. So any companies interested in broadening their their kind of geographical footprint, then this is a great conference. And London's of course is a perfect location in the centre of all of that, you know, Africa, Europe regions. So it's a perfect location, and and hopefully, no matter which part of the demographic you are, you'll have something to take away from this conference.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Well fantastic. And Will, what about you? What are you hoping to take away and and what do you what are you hoping to do and see and get take out of it?

SPEAKER_02 31:18

So I guess similar, which would be no surprise. For for me, it's more about so I tell myself every event I go to make one new friend or or uh person. So yeah, uh I hope to make a new friend.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah, everyone, we'll we'll we'll need a friend, so uh yes, if they buy you a pint, they could be your friend, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, uh other than that, uh I'm just gonna echo what Martin said really is just to catch up with old friends, people that you've known for a few years, but you don't really speak to in day to day because they're the competition, I guess. But catch up with those guys and girls is is the main thing.

unknown 31:56

Yeah, for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

That's great. And and and Sally, this this whole thing is yours next year. What what do you hope to walk away with?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Well, I think lots of momentum is the goal. Yeah, to like Martin was saying, each year it's grown. And so I hope that that everything goes smoothly and that everyone has great ideas and great connections so that they're excited about the following year and that the momentum continues. So I definitely hope that that's an outcome. And for me personally, similarly to to what Martin will have said, of course, reconnecting with the PBSA community. I've been for the past three or three or four years now, and so you really get to meet some great people. So I'm looking forward to seeing familiar faces, and yeah, hope to meet some new people as well and have some new ideas.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, I appreciate that. And I I guess registration's open. And again, I'll take advantage of my editorial prowess as the host to say, I just don't know how you can be a background screener and not be involved in PBSA and and with a straight face represent yourself as a professional if you don't go to the conferences in the in that represent your area. So so good luck. I wish I was there, and it'll be a great conference. Let's segue now away from the conference into we want to find out more about our our our three guests, about them personally, and in order to keep our time within the limit here, we're gonna do a couple speed rounds, and then we'll get to some of the fun stuff what you guys do when you're not involved in background screening. It's always really fascinating to me to talk to people in the industry and find out who your mentors were or people who were influencers or people you'd like to give shout-outs to. I can't remember where we are. Sally, we'll start with you. Anyone you want to shout out to as a mentor or an influencer? Go ahead. Now's now's your time.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Um well, mentors. I have to say, a couple of professors actually come to mind. I had some really inspiring French professors that encouraged me to take the leap and to live abroad and to challenge myself in a different language and to open myself to new cultures. And they continue to follow up with me today. So yeah, yeah, definitely a couple of a couple of great professors that still invest in in my career and and in me as a person. So I'm grateful to have them in my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

That's fantastic. And going on with the speed round, we'll do Will then Martin.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

So my mine would be Susie Thompson. So having worked in her business for 15 years, I think she she shows me what a good leader looks like, and I always wanted to be more like her. Not not just from uh ideas point of view, but for how she treated people and helped them to grow and develop. I I wouldn't be here without her, so she would be my my mentor.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Fantastic. And Susie Thompson was a fantastic guest, and she next year takes over as the first non-North American chair of PBSA on the international board. So my congratulations to Susie and that she's gonna do a fabulous job. And Martin, what about you? Anyone you want to give a shout-out to?

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Yeah, I think like the other the others, I mean it's more about a couple of people rather than their titles, etc. So not necessarily background screening, but certainly when I left university, I had a massively important mentor in my first ever job, proper job. And she was a beautiful uh New Zealand woman who dragged me out of student life into employability, and I think that change in my life was fantastic. It set off my career and you know made me the success I am today, really. And along the way, just one other call out that's of course Susie in the background screening influences many people, she's a big influencer. Susie's definitely the one that introduced me to PBSA, so well done, Susie, for uh convincing me it was a good idea to get involved in the PBSA. She was right. So, mostly my colleagues along the way. I always appreciate all of my team and all my staff in the company because they make the company, they make both my success as well as the company's success. So big shout out to my team.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

That's fantastic. And again, another speed round question. It's always a fascinating question to me. Take a moment, think about it. And uh, really quick, what we'll just go through the list. Each of you, just uh share a lesson that you learned in background screening or in business or in life that you'd like to convey to our mass listening audience. Sally, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Well, I have to say, I'm still pretty early on in my career, but I've learned a lot already. I've learned a lot of lessons. I think to me, taking the time to be human, approachable, and genuinely listen to people and to your team members and your clients builds trust. And I think that that trust is ultimately what drives business growth, what creates great partnerships. So I think that, yeah, really learned that being, you know, turning to the the more human approachable side of things in business is is really helpful and is a positive thing in the business world. I think that that's definitely a lesson that I've learned.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Fantastic. And uh going in order on my screen, Will.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Mine would be to always be honest. So that those that know me will say I'm too honest, but especially when it comes to clients, I I think being open if you've either made a mistake or done something wrong, talking to them about it and working with them to overcome it was was something I learned early on, and it just the idea baffled me when I learned. What do you mean be honest to clients? You try and hide a problem, right? So yeah, I learned that lesson quickly because you always get caught out. So yeah, just learning to trust people that they will support you if if you hold your hands up and you can work together to solve a problem, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Okay, well well, do you uh use a word I hear a lot when I visit the UK? Brilliant. And uh Martin, how about you?

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Yeah, I mean, lessons learned through my perspective. Let's focus on the uh background screening industry. So 15 years in social media vetting, open source intelligence vetting, and what I've learned is context is everything and becoming more so now than it's ever been. So, you know, online content without context, that can be really misleading and can have quite severe consequences both for the employer and for the candidates. They're both roles. So what I've learned is that information is cheap, but judgment is isn't cheap, and it's worth gold.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

That's really interesting. I've done a lot of interviews. That's the first time, and it's such an important point, that's the first time it's really come up and stated so clearly that it it's all about context and perspective and understanding where something fits in into the big picture. So I appreciate that. And and we do want to get to the and spend more time on the questions about life beyond screening, but uh one more speed round question. A proud moment, either you know, associated with background screening or just in general, just something you'd like to share, something that I mean, I'm sure you've had lots of successes and proud moments, but what kind of bubbles up on top that's something that brings a smile to your face?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah, so Mester, I think I can pick something out straight away. So really proud to have been uh given the opportunity to be Council League through Europe and Africa with the PBSA. Sounds a bit cheesy online, though we can't find anything better in my life to pinpoint, but actually it was a really pleasing moment to have been given the chairship and also then to have run that its course, and especially to the Paris event last year where you know we had a really good successful conference, and to drive you know that energy through my chairship was a really proud moment, I think, for lad. And I'm also prone to hand over to Will. Fantastic. Oh Will, how about you?

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Well, so I was gonna say similar. For me, being the chair of PBC was like people kind of trust me because I just started my business as well. So I was like, I'm not part of this big organization anymore. I'm kind of on my own, and then people still trust me enough to let me look after something for a year. So that was a big moment. My other would be starting my business. That my first client, and I I know you just thought about this, came from PBSA. Someone I'd met at PBSA US, the big global conference, with just chanting. They saw I'd start started a business and reached out to to help them with some UK chats. So actually, I've got PBSA to thank for the success of my business, you could argue. So yeah, that'll be the other one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yet another reason to get involved with PBSA. And Sally How about you? A moment that stands out in your mind that you'd like to share.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Well, I guess I can join in and say, proud of being a part of PBSA and and to have a leadership role in the organization early on in my career. I think something totally unrelated to the background screening industry. I think a proud moment for me was getting my master's degree in business that was totally in French. And that was the proud moment. Doing doing finance and business law in French, it was not easy. But I got to the other side, so I think that that was definitely a proud moment for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Oh, that that's fantastic. I mean, to the to to have that language facility faculty. So we're gonna move off of background screening, and uh because I I have heard a rumor, I don't know if it's true or not, but there is life outside of background screening. And right it's always fun to find out about people and what they do beyond screening. So we'll we'll start with Will on this to start with someone new. And uh just looking back, what are your hobbies and interests outside of work? What do you like to do? Uh what do you do for fun when you're not uh concerned about a GTPR or or record or whatever it is that's happening now in the background screening world? Will we start with you, buddy? What what what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 41:56

It's not that exciting, so it kind of matches my my chosen profession. But so I I'm I'm super into like self-development and psychology, so so like learning how the brain works. I I just can't get enough of it. So I'll just sit on YouTube and watch watch these therapists talk about how everything works. Yeah, sadly surprised. So that that that's one little bit, and then I'm learning to sail as well. So I've got a goal to retire early and sail around the world, so I should probably learn to sail. So I've just bought the little dinghy to start learning in. I'm in the right place in the country.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah. So you're gonna sail around the world as soon as you learn how to sail. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I've got kids that need to grow up finesse, and I've got a business to run that at this point.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Um when that's over. Yeah. Oh well, yeah, okay. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Well, I really love music. Music is definitely a part of my life when I'm listening to music or going to concerts, play the flute, but not super active lately. But love music. It's a part of my everyday for sure. But into more activities, I play tennis, I like to run, getting into Pilates, so love to exercise. Definitely helpful after a long day of work.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

All right. There you go. So is it is it Matt Pilates, or do you you use the full the full machine?

SPEAKER_01 43:22

You're a reformer, yeah. Yeah, I've been a reformer.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Okay, so you're a massive fish at heart.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

I I I think I would probably break one of those machines, but well, that's fantastic. And what about you when you're not doing all the things you're doing in aviation and background screening and social media? Yeah, I mean, what do you do when you leave the office?

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Aviation is a good segue. So I'm a bit of a traveler. I've probably been to more than 70 countries over my time traveling. So aviation took me through many, many countries, what cost 25 years. So travel is a big plus for me. And also, you know, I'm a bit of a speed freak. I used to rode mo my ride motorbikes, can't anymore because I had too many disasters on them, so I stopped. It's about the risk balance. We're talking about risk, right? So it's it's this risk reward balance, you know. I love to jump out of an aircraft, an an aircraft as well. I love parachuting, etc. But honestly, it's too risky these days.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

So how many how many perfectly good aircraft have you jumped out of before the aircraft had the chance to land on its own?

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Oh many. So I've done a few, so that's uh good. But but actually, you know, it's it's just again deliberately switching off from screens. There's one thing I don't get myself involved with is digital behavior. So I'm not on screens off my normal workday. So I'm probably spend less time on social media than most people in the industry, even though my business is focused on social media. All right. So I again know the risks.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Well, well, well, before we we we conclude, we we have a game we play. If you've seen previous episodes, we play a game of fun facts. And and fun facts is where I'm gonna ask you to voluntarily, and I've researched all of you, so if you don't reveal something interesting, I will. Well, not really, I'm just a serve a threat. But what is a fun fact that people don't know or suspect about you that if known, you will be mercilessly teased at the next conference, or people will say, You're kidding, really? All right, all right. So who wants to start off and and share of a fun fact that heretofore has been hidden and and and possibly unknown to most of the world? Who wants to be the brave person?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Hold on, we've played I don't know if I should change my answer now, but the explanation.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Sally, give us both answers. All right, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Okay, I've only got one. I've only got one, and it's not maybe as exciting as as you were asking, but I really like to do Lindy Hop. The dance.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

You know the West Coast or East Coast or East Coast, yeah. East Coast, okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, yeah, love the Lindy Hop. Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

And you you you have an East Coast Lindy Hop partner who can who can do all the moves and uh you know, I do, and he's in Charleston, so we don't get to practice very often anymore, but all right. I took a uh a swing class with my wife, and she ended up abandoning me and dancing with the instructor because he knew what he was doing and and did not have two left feet. So that's that's been my exposure uh to that. Uh okay, we have we have a East Coast swinger, East Coast swing Lindy Hopper with us. Will, what about you? What's something that no one would suspect about you? Come on.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah, everyone. Give us the goods. Good, but my my pie trick is I can hum and whistle at the same time, which not many people seem to be able to do, but I can hum and whistle.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Give it a go and shall I?

SPEAKER_02 46:59

I can't do it when I'm smiling, that's the problem. It sounds like a planger. Do you know planger's?

SPEAKER_04 47:05

You know, you oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Did I interrupt you? You want to give the you want to do a full concerto, or are you are you good? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

I'm good, Finky. I'll do the tune.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Sally can do the dance, and then mine is about to do you can sing and hum while Sally's dancing, all right? And and is this a talent that you can display with or without a pint? You can do it on command, I take it. Me? Yeah. Yeah, just about. And and and Martin, what about you? What's other than jumping out of out of airplanes, which I I I personally found astounding, what what do you do that's wild and crazy that people don't suspect?

SPEAKER_03 47:49

I feel I have to complete the ensemble of of musical talent. So I've changed my kind of thought on this. So I'm actually a former brass band member and I play the cornet. And a little secret, I used to go busking around the pubs at 14 years old with my friends playing the cornet and playing Christmas carols for money.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

All right.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

And and is cornet the English word for trumpet? Because a cornet's kind of instrument.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

Typically a smaller trumpet. It's it's a slightly small, it's slightly a bit like a trumpet, similar key instrument, but uh a bit smaller.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

But it's a B flat instrument, but it's still a little bit smaller. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, we we we have quite the talented group here. This is really fun. Well, we're we're we're approaching the end of the hour, so we have one last question, and I'll I'll I'll start with uh whoever wants to start. You you know, we we uh talked about the fact you all you talked about mentors. This is your opportunity to mentor other people who might be listening. What is your advice to someone who is either thinking of getting into the industry or perhaps they're already in it? Maybe they're not in management, maybe they're a verifier or a criminal record researcher, or maybe they're been in it for a few years. What's your advice for how to succeed and prosper in the industry and advance and and uh become more knowledgeable or whatever it is their goal is? What would what would you suggest they do?

SPEAKER_02 49:20

I'd say to do do research and ask questions. So I think what helped me a lot was when there was a standard or an industry, you'd go research it and figure out what was underneath. So not just oh, here are the checks we need, but why. And that helped me no end when I'm talking to clients and I can quote the legislation that they need to adhere to. It just really helps. So just go apart from beyond in terms of your learning and that's that's great advice.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Just don't do things by road, but understand why it's being done. Yeah. Sometimes we do things just because it's always been done that way, and there's no good reason for it anymore. At one time there may have been, but now you just do it because you because you do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

You kind of took my will. Yeah. Yeah, I was just gonna say to bounce off and to add on to what Will said was to stay curious. I think asking questions, doing research is a key part of learning about this industry, understanding about it, whether you're in sales, operations, or upper management, I think it's important to understand the foundations of yeah, the checks that you're doing, the needs of candidates and clients, and yeah, just staying curious about it all, about the whole ecosystem involved.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

I appreciate that. And and Martin, as you're the, if I can say, kind of the senior member of the group as the past chair, all right. Senior. Okay, I thought you would be a senior last time. There you go. I'm beyond senior. I'm I'm I'm I'm an ancient retired dinosaur. All right.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Well, thank you. Thank you for the title. So I would say learn the tools in the industry, learn the tools, but uh honestly understand the responsibility and take it seriously. The background screening industry is there for a really serious purpose to to you know make sure companies and organizations are protected, but also candidates are treated fairly. There's a lot of legislation around, and if I look at the social media and OSINT kind of open source vetting, they're not just data sources, they're actual reflections of people online. And it's important that to coming into the industry and if you're in particular in my niche, then get the balance right. And if you get the balance right, you'll do well in the profession. So screen people like you'd want to be screened yourself, I always say. And treat screening as risk management, not risk hunting. And those are two takeaways for people.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Well, those are great takeaways for that. Great advice. You'd want to be screened, and then uh that it's all that's all good advice. So this has been a great group. We've covered a lot of material, but just as a catch-all, in in case you're sitting there thinking, gosh, there's something I I wanted to mention, I didn't have a chance. The final question always is the last word. And if there's anything that you want to add or say, uh the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Yeah, I mean, the screening is here to stay, especially social media screenings now here to stay. How we do it will define our industry. So, what I would say is come to the 2026 London Summit. It's all about moving forward together as a community, responsibly together, setting the tone for the next phase of screening in Europe, Africa, and beyond. And I'll drop the mic with the internet doesn't forget, but good screening knows when to let go. So remember that.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

All right, there you go. I appreciate that. All right, and we'll as the current chair, as the current head honcho of BBSA Europe, Africa. Anything else you want to add before we we sign off? Floor is yours.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

I don't know how to follow Martin.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

I know, goodness.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah, he does, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:04

I'd say if and Dow come along to the summit in London, it's gonna be bigger. We've got two days planned, it's gonna be better, better than mind, of course, because we're slightly competitive. So, yeah, look forward to seeing you there. And if you buy me a pint, I'll call you my friend.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

All right. There you go. Uh there you go. A friend for a pint program. Will Hogarth.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

All right.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

And and before we conclude, Sally as the future chair of this fine group. Anything else you want to add or any any any final thoughts to add to the discussion?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Well, just hope to see everybody this May in London and stay tuned for maybe an announcement about 2027.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Okay, well, we can always look forward to 2027. So, folks, it's been a great panel. I let me extend my appreciation to Martin Hardy, who's the the past chair of PBSA Europe-Africa, and a veteran of the industry. Will Hogarth, who is the current chair, also a veteran, and Sally Lacoste, the current chair who is rapidly becoming a veteran. And it's been a pleasure having you. On behalf of our podcast sponsor, which is the Premium Employment Directory, and our good friend Burry Nixon. It has been truly a pleasure hosting all of you. And I hope that you have a fantastically successful conference on the at the Barbican in London on May 18th and 19th. So, congratulations and thanks for being here. And appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having us listened. Thanks, everybody. All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions, or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host, Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.