Episode 57: Nick Fishman on Purpose, Mentorship, and Making a Mark in Background Screening

In this episode of Behind the Screens, I sit down with someone I’ve long admired—Nick Fishman, co-founder of Employee Screen IQ and now a partner at iCubed Advisors. Nick is one of those rare people who brings equal parts insight, creativity, and humanity to everything he does in this industry.

We talk about how he built and sold Employee Screen IQ, his early marketing innovations like Employee Screen University, and why background screening remains more than just a career for him—it’s a mission. Nick opens up about the mentors who shaped him, the importance of giving back, and what keeps him energized in this work after decades in the business.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why Nick sees background screening as a vital public service
• How he turned thought leadership into a business advantage with Employee Screen University
• The role PBSA played in shaping his advocacy and industry involvement
• What he’s learned from mentoring others—and being mentored himself
• His advice for newcomers trying to find their place in this complex, rewarding field

This episode is for you if...

• You’re passionate about doing meaningful work in background screening
• You’re looking for ways to lead with both heart and strategy
• You want to hear how one industry leader built a company with values at the core
• You’re new to the field and looking for career-defining wisdom

Connect with US:

• Les Rosen- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesterrosen/
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/@BehindtheSCreens200

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is gonna sound so bulky, but I really believe that background screening I felt a purpose that I never felt before. I I hate to say it like a calling. But we really in this industry are protecting our communities. We're doing a service that keeps people safe and treats people fairly. And I think that that's what got me so interested in this industry and that continues to keep me here. I just I just believe it's a valuable public service.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome to yet another exciting action-packed vodka behind the screens. And today one of my favorite people is on the show. This is a gentleman who you have heard talk about the industry. But as you know, on this podcast, we don't really talk about substantive things, we talk about the people. And so you're gonna find out about him. He's a person who has been voted by our colleagues as being one of the ten most influential people in the screening industry. I don't remember not knowing him since I've been in the screening industry. So, of course, I am talking about my good friend and our special guest, Nick Fishman. Nick, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Thank you for having me. And I just want to thank my mom also for stuffing the ballot box on that 10 most influential thing. We would have given it otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Well, I I I think it was an accurate vote. So let's start off with our icebreaker. Where are you talking to us from today?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Where are you located? You were getting me live from my home office in Scottsdale, Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh, okay. Okay, fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

So you're you're you're no longer a Clevelandite then. No, I haven't been in Cleveland for years now. I've been uh living in Chicago since 1995. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And I now split time. I we we have a policy in my household, my wife and I, it's a no-winter policy. So as soon as it starts to get cold in Chicago, we come to Arizona. As soon as it gets warm enough in Chicago to go back, we go back.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I don't know why. I mean I mean, obviously, Cleveland is part of your history. We'll we'll we'll go through some of that. But but obviously Chicago, yeah, I remember uh searching parking lots with you after a White Sox game, trying to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, my daughter still remembers that and I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

All right. Somewhere your car was there, but we we finally found it. All right. So let's start where we are. We start. Nick, what's your your in case the audience doesn't know, I'm sure most of them do, but what's your current role? What are you currently doing? What do you what do you like about it? What's Dick Fishman doing these days?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, so I mean, like, it depending upon how you look at it, like act three or four of my career at this point, I'm I'm really focusing on two things right now. First is I've been investing in some companies in the space, primarily on the wholesale side, the supply chain side, and that's been really fun for me and rewarding. And then the other thing that I do is I'm one of the managing members at iCubed Advisors, which you might know is a boutique advisory firm, specific only to background screening companies and CRAs. And so I've been having a lot of fun with that as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah. You guys put on a, you know, I think we all know a lot of a lot of really interesting webinars and and groups and whatever it is, right? Yeah. Uh yeah. And we've had a lot of members. We had Jason on, Bianca, Andy, and one of these days, uh, if I can nail Kevin down, we'll stick stick him in your seat as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Absolutely. Those are my partners in crime. We've had a lot of fun doing this. And as you know, it's a great industry to work in. We've got a lot of old friends in the in in this industry, and we're certainly meeting new ones as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

And you guys put on that, you host a happy hour at at the PBSA conference. We'll get the PSA in a while, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, we've been doing that for you know four or five years now, and it's it's worked out really well. People, you know, they appreciate just kind of that relaxed atmosphere before they get into like high sales mode when they enter in the uh the exhibit hall. So it works out well.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

And you don't mind that I encourage people to go there and order a full mill and two or three drinks and just say charge of the deck. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

The only problem is I don't know what your hotel room number is anymore, so I can't give them that when I sign the check.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

All right, I hate when it works out that way.

unknown 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Okay, well, you're on act three or act four or or or however you're acting out these days. So what's been your career path? How did you get from where you were to where you are now? And and and what happened in between?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah, well, I had just some quick highlights. I really started in the sports marketing business, believe it or not. And I had been doing that in the early part of my career when I met Jason Morris. And at the time, Jason had heard that I was, in addition to the sports marketing work I was doing, I was really helping people write business plans, get businesses launched. And so he came to me with this idea of getting into the background streaming business. And I looked at it and it just seemed interesting to me at the time. He wanted to do like a fingerprint business, going to different college campuses. And I dissuaded him of that notion, you, you know, immediately. But we formed a small investment group to start what would become employee street IQ. And it was really supposed to be a side investment for me. And this was in 1999. You know, by 2001, and you know, unfortunately 9-11 would have happened regardless of whether our industry was in or not. But we all know that everybody got very security conscious at that point. And so I ended up selling the sports marketing business I had and got fully involved in employee street IQ at that time. And honestly, I never really looked back. It is just, I like to call it dumb luck. It's something that I fell into that I had a deep passion for. And so we grew that business until 2015 when we exited to, you know, selling into Sterling, into the Goldman Sachs films. Loved it there, spent about three years there, learned quite a bit. And by the time, you know, three years had rolled around, I think I kind of said, you know what, I'm working harder for Sterling than I ever worked for myself. And so I needed a little bit of a break. And I went into a little bit of consulting and did some work with a couple different companies. And lo and behold, I it turned it out into a full-time role at SJV, which then became Inform Data, where I stayed for quite some time until about a year ago. So that's the history of uh kind of the evolution of my career in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

And those are just the highlights. I mean, there in between there's a lot, I mean there's a lot of details you're not trying to go into.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I've only told you about the positive experiences I've had throughout my career.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I mean, at one point I remember you, Jason, and I got together and dinner with your dad. And uh we we actually were thinking early on of of sticking our toes in the social media waters.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, it's so funny. And and I I don't know about you, but I certainly spouted out off about how I thought that it was a a horrible idea to get involved in social media screening. And you know, lo and behold, I you know, a few years later we were talking about doing it ourselves, and I eventually ended up investing in one of the companies that does it. And I'm a big advocate now.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

That's what interesting because I remember the three of us we we went we met with developers and looked at it and go, yeah, let's let's stick to what we know for sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Right, exactly. We would have been way before our time had we done it at that time. I think that was like maybe it was like 2007, 2008, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, yeah. It would have been premature.

unknown 8:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, time timing's everything. So you know, as you've gone through these various acts, it you obviously you know so many people in the industry, but but who have been some of your mentors or or some of your influencers in your career?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, well, I mean, I think to start out with, at least as it relates to the background screening industry, I would say first and foremost is my father. My dad taught me everything I needed to know, or at least enough that I needed to know about how to start a business, how to operate it responsibly, how not to be stupid and bankrupt it. And really, I think my dad was the driving force behind helping us develop what we consider to be a real business, how to have integrity with your customers, how to make sure that they were taken care of before anybody else, and also your employees. And so I give my dad a lot of credit for that. Jason and I left to our own devices, would have created a natural disaster. So I would say that my dad is probably the most influential, certainly early on. Then, as we got into business, I would say, you know, Jason obviously taught me everything I needed to know about background screening, kind of really got me excited about it. And then, of course, I ran into the guy that's sitting across from me right now, Yidu, who, all kidding aside, I still don't understand why you did it, but always taking phone calls, always helping out wherever you could. And that's rare, that's unique, and I really appreciate that. So I I would say that that that is probably where at least the beginning part of my career was. Kind of as we as we grew up in the business, I would say as we exited to Sterling, the most influential person to me and one of my mentors was a woman named Julia Mayer, who you might or might not know, but Julia was the chief marketing officer at Sterling at the time that they acquired us. And of course, you know, they buy us, and of course, I at that point, in addition to a lot of my other responsibilities, was that I too was a chief marketing officer. Left to my own devices. I probably, if somebody else was coming into that position, would have locked them in the broom closet and told them to go away. And she was fantastic to me. She was never threatened, and maybe that's because I wasn't as good as she was, and I fully admit that, but she found a way to plug me in and get me exposed to things that I had never been in my career. And so she was a real mentor to me. And then, you know, finally the last person that I'll point to, and hopefully I haven't gone too long-winded here.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

No, no, go ahead. It's like the Academy of Awards, you know. If you and it was and also you're always fearful of God, who did I leave out?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

But if you start playing music and give me the hook, I'll stop. But uh again, very serious note. I think that you know, do you know Kim Kerr? Do you remember Kim?

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Kim is somebody that I've known in the industry for a very long time. And as I got more involved in SJV and in the informed data, Kim has been an incredible mentor to me. Both, I would say, about the business, about the experiences he's had, about different ways of going at things. But as much as he's taught me about the business, he's also taught me about how to become a great person and how to be accountable. And I treasure the relationship I have with him. He's an incredible guy, and uh, and I would say that he he's very influential in my career development now.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Well, you've been very fortunate. I mean, obviously your dad, Les Fishman, is a great guy, CPA, hardcore business guy, but a really nice guy as well. I remember you, me and Jason talking to him, and and and uh he we really had the the pointed questions, and I sort of think, God, we we probably should have thought this through a whole lot more.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Right. I won't tell him that you're saying nice things about him. He might take it as an insult.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

All right, I don't want to go there. So during all these uh adventures that you've had, what would be an early lesson you that you'd want to share that you you know found out early in your career or mid-career that uh as yeah, and we all learn lots of lessons, but what's a lesson or two that that just immediately bubbles to the surface that you like to share with the uh Okay, so this is your way of telling me don't go 12 minutes on this one? No, you you can go you can go 11 minutes and 30. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Well, I it okay, so you know, big ones, and these are really, you know, not necessarily background spitting lessons, but first thing is treat everybody the way that you would want to be treated. And I don't care who it is, whether it's somebody that is a subordinate to you, somebody that that needs something from you, or you need something from, there is never enough kind of goodwill that you can possibly get by treating people kindly, treating them fairly, and being open and honest with them. I think that's a huge lesson.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I'll just interrupt there and unpack that a bit because you know sometimes firms don't realize that you really gotta be nice to your vendors. I mean, your vendors are supplying you, but they they're they're partners, and you and you get so much advantage out of that. And being nice to consumers, right? I have I share the same passion. Yeah, those are those are the two groups that immediately come to mind that if you're a CRA, you really need to develop a relationship. But but I I I I interrupt, please, perceived.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

No, no, that's okay. Life's too short to have enemies. It doesn't matter what you do. So, you know, you might as well create kind of a support system of people that want to see you do well, that are invested in you. And the best way to do that is to treat them the way that you would want to be treated. My dad taught me very early on integrity is all that matters. The second you let that slip, that becomes your reputation. I think that's really important. One thing that I think that this just came into the top of my head that I talk a lot about is in mentorship. It is okay to allow yourself to be used. It is okay to use other people. And I don't mean use other people for, you know, to take advantage of them or or to allow you to be taken advantage of the job. But like I pointed out, people like you and Kim Kerr and my father were only so happy to be able to mentor me and get absolutely nothing in return. And I have always seen that with people that I try to help out is that I know that there are give and take relationships, and there are some where you just give more and some that you give less. So I think it's okay to to use others and and and and to be used in a very positive way. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

So so with the you know, particularly with the you know the the the influences that you described and and the early lessons, very interesting. And a lot of it applies, you know, you applied it obviously to the background screen industry from your early days with a play screen cube. So what is it, and I you alluded to it a little bit, but you work in the sports industry, you have the skills, you can go to any industry. I mean, it doesn't really matter. You have the skill set, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, but you you've gravitated back to the background industry. Why is that? What what is there about background screening or the background screening folks that have uh captured your your attention?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, well, I guess with all due respect to my friends that are still in sports marketing, I never really found it to be rewarding where I felt like I was making any kind of a difference in the world. And this is gonna sound soapy, but I really believe that background screening, I felt a purpose that I never felt before. It was like I hate to say it, like a calling. But we really in this industry are protecting our communities. We're doing a service that keeps people safe and treats people fairly. And I think that that's what got me so interested in this industry and that continues to keep me here. I just I just believe it's a valuable public service.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah. You know, for employers, for uh you know, for our clients, or for for everybody. Yeah, I want to.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Well, listen, and I I I think the other thing is too, is like I think what I value about this industry, and you know this, this is a great opportunity to be able to educate people on something that they don't know about, but that's really important. I know you made that a hallmark of your career, and I certainly have made it of mine as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting about the industry too. I've had I've had guests on the show say, well, the industry has really matured in the old days. We use fax machines. And I made the point, well, maybe 10 years from now we'll look back at today and and what we're doing today will be will be the same as you know looking back as though we use fax machines and pagers. What was your what's your thought? I mean I I think there's gonna be leaps and bounds. I think the industry will be something entirely different.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Everything evolves. Like we look we would look at what we did 20 years ago or even 10 years ago and say, oh my God, I can't believe we used to do it that way. With the advent of you know things like machine learning or artificial intelligence right now, it is pushing this industry in leaps and bounds and accelerating it in a path that I don't think we've ever seen. So, yeah, of course I think it's gonna evolve. Now, what exactly that looks like, you know, I don't have my Nostradamus hat on at the moment, but I do I do think it will be meaningfully different.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and uh that's one of the interesting things. You know, now that I'm solo an outsider, I can look at it and see how it's evolving and see all the interesting things people are doing. So with with all the the accomplishments you've had and and the careers and the uh stages, what would you say stands out in your mind as a a proud moment, something that brings a smile to your face and say, yeah, that was pretty cool. I did that, that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the biggest thing is starting a company at 26 or 27 years old with Jason and it actually turning into a business to the point that you know we sold it to the largest provider in the background streeting industry, was really, really cool. It's still something I'm so proud of. And so I think that that was really big. Um, other things that I think we did kind of cool, like when we started Employees Street and University. And, you know, for those that don't know, I probably ripped off an idea from 700 other industries. But bottom line is what we did is we created all these tools to start educating the marketplace about, you know, whether it was how to comply with background screening laws and the latest trends and things like that. And it got incredible results. We were driving tons of leads just through that vehicle. And and one of the best moments, and and I'll break my hand, patting myself on the back, is I I don't remember what year it was, but way before we were ready to service a customer like this, we walked into somebody that I would probably say now is one of the three largest companies in the world. And we were talking to them about their background screening program, and they were interested in hearing what we had to say. And when I went to go introduce myself during the meeting, the woman across the table looks at me and she goes, Oh, we know exactly who you are. You're the employee screen IQ university guy. Why do you think you're here? And you know, Jason, Jason certainly I thought it was funny, but was like, Well, how come they didn't recognize me? But uh it really was like a moment to me of like, Oh my god, somebody's paying attention to this. So those were kind of the cool things. The other really cool thing that I love less, and again, I know I'm sounding hokey, but at this point I'm an old man, and this is the kind of thing that you don't get at them. But seeing the other people that worked at Employees Street IQ continue to excel in this industry is so gratifying to me, and I'm so proud of it. You know, Angela Preston and Joe Berlin and John Speary and Zach Martin, Andrew Cashman, guys like that, Kevin Bachman has done incredibly well, and it's so nice to see them go on to other places and and be successful. So those are things for me that I love. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, and I'm sure I left others out. I didn't do it on purpose. Reach out to me uh if if I left you in the thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Well, I mean you can't name three or forty people, but uh, you know, there's only so much time. So you know, one of the hallmarks I think of your career has been your role in participating in PBSA. Uh you know, starting off any PBS now, PBSA. What what's been the influence of uh PBSA in your career? How how how has that impacted you and what's your thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the biggest thing with PBSA that I've taken out of it are the relationships. You know, there are not many industries where you can meet with your competitors who you compete intensely with and then go to a conference and they're all your best friends. And I think that's been the most gratifying thing. I think PBSA for me personally also was great in my career because it gave me an opportunity to get involved in advocacy um both at the state and the federal level. And I I definitely treasure those experiences as well. And so I think that's been great, right? You know, PDSA set the standard for a very long time about how this industry should operate, and they should be given credit for that.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

So on advocacy day, so you you you've been a participant, obviously, at the uh the DC fly ends. That's fun, isn't it? I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah, I don't know. I I don't know if they still do it, and I I certainly know it evolved differently. You know, we all originally got involved in it. There were only a handful of us that went to it, and we were sitting down and we were meeting with the commissioners of you know the FTC, or you know, we met with with senators or their aides or or representatives. I don't know if they get that exposure anymore, but I can tell you that it was certainly one of the highlights of my career.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, and they do. Went to a couple years ago. I mean, I was obviously at the very first one where there's only just a handful of us, and we actually got in some pretty important meetings with the FTC and and and various folks. But yeah, no, it it's it's still going strong, and and you get to go up to Capitol Hill and go into various senators and congressman office and and federal agencies. So yeah, so you I I I take it you would recommend that to people to do.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Highly it's a it's an experience of a lifetime, and you know, and it's it's gratifying. It can be, I I think now probably a little more frustrating than it used to be. No matter who you met with, you know, before 10 years ago when we used to do this, there was a lot of respect in the room. Like you could hear people's sides and understand it. I, you know, and I might be wrong about this, but I just think we live in a very politically charged atmosphere right now. And I don't know if you go into a senator's or representative's office that is adamantly opposed to your point of view, and there's still that same level of openness and transparency.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, no, no, people are are still receptive because the the things we do with oil safety and the you know, yeah, basically the rights, uh, second chance and so forth are pretty pretty well accepted. I can't go anymore because I don't I don't own a suit. So uh sorry, I I can't I can't do that. So let's let's get beyond the background screening. Let's talk about uh life beyond background screening, you know, apart from all all the things that you do in your professional career. What do you do when you're when you're not background screening? What what are your hobbies or interests or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Well, I'll get in trouble if I don't mention this first, but of course my family is you know my number one favorite pastime. I've been married now for 28 years, coming up on 29 years. I've got two daughters. One is 23 years old, and she just finished her master's degree and just took her first job in HR, so very excited for her. And then my other daughter is a junior at the University of Arizona, and she is focusing on real estate. And so we're really excited to see what that has in store for her. So, you know, first and foremost, especially this time that I've taken off since Informed Data, it's been unbelievable to not get on a plane every week and leave them. Of course, they've left me, they're not in the same place as me anymore, but but I really enjoy spending time with them. The other thing is, you all know this, I am an unapologetic Ohio State Buckeyes football fan. I follow them uh maniacally. Yes, I'm gonna cut you off less. They lost to Indiana this week. They beat us, but it's okay. I still think we have a national championship in us, and we still beat Michigan this year, so need I say more. So I spend, I I really do love college football. And then activities, you know, I am, you know, now that we're out in Arizona, I'm a big hiker. Um, I do a lot of biking, a lot of exercise in in general. We love to travel. We've been traveling all over the world for the last several years, very much like yourself. And I've taken up golf, albeit not very good at it, but I still enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I mean I mean golf where you you have dragons and waterfalls and real deal.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

I'm not even good at that. Like, no, I'm in the real deal.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

So your daughter's at UA down in that far away.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, two hours. Yeah, yeah, that's not too bad. Not at all. Let's ask her how bad it is, though. I mean to live with it, not me.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Well, that's an ideal, ideal distance. It's far enough where the parental units don't show up too much on an house, but she's you know close enough to home to do the laundry, so it all works.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

It's the best. We love it. And and you know, she makes good use of it and um it comes in spurts sometimes, and then we don't see her for months at a time.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Do you go on the road and go to Ohio State Games or when I'm back in Chicago?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

It's actually easy, fairly easy to get to games because you know I went down to Champaign in Illinois to go see them. I went up to Madison this year in Wisconsin to go see them. Once I get out here, it becomes a little bit more challenging. But uh they likely, well, I don't want to I don't want to jinx it, but if they win in the first round of the playoffs this year, they'll be in the fiestable year. So I hope to go to that game as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

You better better get tickets right away. Right. Yeah, exactly. That can get that can get expensive. So so Nick, with with all that, tell us a uh, if you don't mind, a a fun fact that people may not know about you. That of course once you let it out publicly, people will uh you know not not hesitate to rib you about it at PBSA meetings. What would what do you do in your street?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Can I say something like I chose to be bold? That's it. Uh let's let's see. You know, I just looked at this the other day. I have been to every state in this country, with the exception of North Dakota. And I think there's one more that I'm just not thinking of right now. Actually, that might be it. It might just be North Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Because you're not allowed, you're not allowed they're not they won't allow you to go in, or you just didn't get there.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

They they won't allow me in to North Dakota? No, probably not. No, no business need to be there. But if somebody can come up with a good reason for me to be in North Dakota, I'm there because I got to close it off the list. Just because it's north of South Dakota. I mean, that's good enough. I've been to South. South's great. I saw it in Rushmore.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Have you been to North Dakota? I will confess no. I have not.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

All right. Well, then maybe you and I have to do this together. All right, we'll take it. Just during the summer.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

So, I mean, so you're out there for spring training, right? I'll be out, I'll give you a call, I'll be out for spring training as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

We go to um, I'm not a huge Cubs fan, but I like the Cubs. We go to their spring training games all the time. It's a fun experience.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

That's great. Yeah. No, you're you're you're right there. Although the spring training tickets used to be you know 10-15 bucks. It's not necessarily that anymore, but yeah, I know, and half the stadium was empty, and now it's uh two or three hundred dollars and it's packed. Yeah, exactly. So it's the the world has really has really changed. So as we we come to our uh the end of our time together, is there anything we left out that you want to talk about that we have a chance to talk about?

unknown 28:16

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

What are you doing today to stay busy these days, Les?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I'm interested in hearing about you.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Nah, no, no. I'm just boring. I do these podcasts and you know, I do what you do. I invest, I you know, I I keep busy, I travel.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

I know you're a big Dodgers fan. Congratulations on the World Series. We're all very proud of the of you for that. I that was one of the best World Series I've ever seen in my life, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

If not, no, that's that's right. PBSA, you and I were leaving right at the same time. You we shared an Uber because I was on my way to pick up my car to go to Dodgers Stadium, and Dodgers lost that one.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

But they lost that one, but they went, they ended up winning.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

That's all all that counts in the end. So, Nick, what what is your uh advice for you know, since you've been in the industry and had all the experiences, you know, for a person that is you know, either just starting out, they might be a verifier or a records clerk, they might be a little higher up, they may not be in management, they may not make decisions, may not have the ability to you know get sent to PBSA. But what can they do in their career if they if they want to make the background screening a you know their their the shoes that is their career? What's your advice?

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, well I I mean I I think that committing to this industry means committing to a lifetime of learning. This industry has evolved and it will continue to evolve. We talked about it. You learn new things every single day, whether it's new laws, new ways of complying with things, new ways of selling the product, new ways of creating products and packaging products, new ways of selling products. And so I think it really takes a commitment to understanding that what you learn today will not be the case and will not be the way you do things tomorrow. That's the biggest lesson I think you know somebody could take. The other thing is, and I think that this is really important in an industry where we hear the same things from people. We have better turnaround time, we're more compliant than anybody. All of these, you know, the these claims, but I think both individually and as a company, I would encourage people to be different, be bold, be unique. I I think it's a great way to stand out in the industry. Don't be afraid to be yourself. That and that goes for any industry, but particularly for this one, I think there's enough people doing the same thing the same way as they've always done it. Don't be afraid to make some changes.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

You know, what's interesting about that, what struck me is that that's not only advice for people that are in the you know management team or the upper echelon, but it's also great advice for just a person who might just be, like I said, you know, uh a researcher or you know, or a verifier, or do something different than everyone else. Yeah, go to the PBSA site and and get a certification. One of the personal certifications they offer. Call up, join a committee, and you you can just rise up by your own bootstraps and just choose to be different just by being involved, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I agree. That and and the other thing is don't be afraid to ask somebody for help. You know, most people are approachable, most people want to help you if they're asked to be able to help you. They don't always go and volunteer it, but if you show interest and you want to climb the ladder, I have never seen evidence of somebody not being helpful in that regard. And so I just think that this is a great opportunity to do that.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, I mean it's interesting. You and I have both been in management or ownership of a company, and it is so amazing that to get the attention of management just by expressing the desire to advance and making yourself valuable by learning more, getting in earlier, asking questions, and and so when they need that next supervisor, you might be it. Or exactly. And and that's how people move up to the management team.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, I mean, obviously the work has to be there, but beyond the work, it's really that curiosity that can get you to the next level.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, yeah. And then it's not uh people can stay, I think our surprise learn that that you even though you think you're just a cog in a large organization, you can stand out uh just by showing curiosity, by doing something exceptional. Yeah, suddenly you're you're on a PPSA committee. And is how did you do that? Well, I I rose my hand, I I volunteered. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah, and then that reason is keeping mine like our entire careers. Who did we want to see elevated in our careers? It was P or their careers, people that we trusted, people that looked enthusiastic about what they did, that demonstrated passion, that were reliable. And that you you get that by by standing out and by and by raising your hand.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah. So that's that's really the walkaway point. Raise your hand, stand out. Either if you're regardless whether you're a a a company or an individual, no matter where you are, just raise your hand and stand out. And and and don't don't don't wait for someone just to elevate you. Elevate yourself. Yeah. Great advice. Well, I I think we've covered everything. Let me just finish with the last by giving you the last word. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Any any closing remarks or uh comments? Nick Fishman, the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Well, I think thank you for including me. I'm really honored to be included. I think you've done such a tremendous job with these podcasts, and it's really a service to the industry. I I applaud you for it. Frankly, I'm sorry I didn't come up with it on my own, but that's a lot of story. But but thank thank you for having me. I and the only thing I want to say is, you know, now having been in this industry for an awful long time, it's been, you know, nearly 26 years, I believe. I am so fortunate to have been in this industry, to continue to be in it and to be a big advocate for it. What we do is important. Everybody that's listening to this, you're probably in the industry, otherwise you wouldn't be listening to it. But just realize what you're doing plays such an important role in the lives of so many people, and and it's great to be passionate about this. You can you can rely on the fact that this is an honorable career and an honorable, honorable industry. And and and there are people out there, whether like you were talking about, if you're starting at the bottom right now, please reach out. Anybody can reach out to me, they can email me, they can call me. I'm always happy to help people advance in their careers. So I think that that's what that you know that's that's all I have to say.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Well, I I somehow doubt that's all you have to say. That's all we have time for.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Clearly, you know me well, Les. All right. All right.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Well, Nick, this has been great. I really appreciate you coming on. Well, let me thank you. Uh we have our podcast also behalf of our sponsor, our chief platinum sponsor, uh Barry Nixon, the pre-employment directory, who is kind enough to sponsor our efforts here. And looking forward to uh more podcasts in the future. And uh Nick, boy, great to see you again. And I and I may take you up on uh catching a Cubs game at spring training and probably in February or March.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Yeah, February or March, spring training, and then June in North Dakota. You and I, we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

We're doing it. All right, you hear it here, folks. Next podcast is from North Dakota. Signing off from behind the screens our special guest, Nick Fishman. Thanks, Nick.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Thanks, Les. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions, or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host, Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.