Episode 45: How Catherine Aldrich Brame Shaped Accreditation & Industry Standards in Background Screening

What if the very foundations of background screening—the databases, the processes, the standards—were shaped by someone who once started out answering phones as a young mom just trying to make it work? That’s the story of Catherine Aldrich Brame. From building the first national criminal databases at CDB Infotech, to scaling Accurate and HireRight, to co-founding Five Diamond Screening, Cath has been at the heart of every major leap in our industry. She’s also one of the original board members of PBSA, guiding accreditation that still defines us today. Cath’s journey proves that resilience, vision, and a relentless work ethic don’t just build careers—they build industries.

Pro Conversation You don’t want to miss!

1. From Customer Service Rep to Industry Builder

2. Scaling Accurate and HireRight: Lessons in Growth

3. Building Five Diamond Screening & Shaping Accreditation

4. Leadership, Mentorship, and Service Beyond Screening

Catherine’s story reminds us that leadership isn’t about titles—it’s about impact. From her first role answering phones to shaping accreditation and mentoring leaders, she has proven that one person can truly help build an industry. Her story is a blueprint for resilience, innovation, and service.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you never miss an inspiring story. And as always, share it with someone in your network who could use a little inspiration from one of the trailblazers of background screening.

Connect with US:

• Les Rosen- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesterrosen/
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/@BehindtheSCreens200

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I remember from my father that you can teach anybody a skill, but you can't teach work ethic. And so I knew I had to work hard and I always wanted to be the go-to person. You know, if I was the person that knew how to do something or they wanted my opinion, I'd always have a role, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Behind the Screens. And just a little bit of history. When I first thought of doing this and talking with uh Barry Nixon, my guest list, there's one person in particular I said, I gotta get her on. Not sure when or how, but I'm gonna find her. We're gonna get her on the show. And today's that day. And is I am so happy to have with us a woman who really from you know those who have seen Hamilton was really in the room where it happened, and you'll hear the story. She was with the original firm that really got a lot of this off the ground. She's with two firms as executive VP or head of operations that just took off. She was on the first board of PBSA. She was heavy involved on accreditation, but just an incredible history. And so really been looking forward to it. And the person I am talking about is Katherine Aldrich Brahm. Catherine, welcome to the show. Or should I call you Kat?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Kat's fine too. Hi, Les. Good to see you, and I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

I'm happy to get you. And this is really glad we've we were able to make all these arrangements. So, Kat, let's start off for the people who may not know you and or I don't know who that could be, but it's possible. Let's start where we always start with every every podcast. Tell us what you currently do and what do you like about it and what do you find most interesting?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Well, I have to say, I'm having more fun in my career right now than I've had in a long time. Since I sold my company in September of 23, I've been with Acusource HR. And I came on board really to help with the transition. At that point, I wasn't sure if I was going to stay or not. And just after a really short amount of time, I realized it was such a good fit for both sides. So now I'm back running operations for Acisource HR, background screening, drug testing, the whole vendor management team, and just really having a blast with working with the team there and helping employers figure out what they need to do. And it's a lot of fun and a great team.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

So having a blast and running teams and running ops, helping employers figure out is really has been your career path. So tell us about that. Let's start. I mean, because you have a fascinating career path, but tell us how you got to where you are now.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Well, I'm gonna date myself. I did start in the industry in 1988, and it's easy to remember how many years that is because I started at CDB Infotech. The owner was Rick Rosar, and he was a private investigator at the time. He wasn't even doing like traditional background screens. But I joined him as a customer service rep as I was coming off maternity leave with my oldest daughter, and she's 37 now. Okay. So we learned how to walk in the office. It was great. But as customer service rep, so I'm taking phone calls from clients. You know, we really did like insurance subrogation reports at that time and skip tracing and trying to find people. And Rick was such a visionary. He's the guy that started the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the Adam Osh Foundation. And from a career perspective, he started putting together data to help private investigators. And he was the first guy to buy LA County Records and database them, and one of the first people to buy the TransUnion credit header file. And along with Hank Asher over at DBT, we were the first ones to create the compiled national criminal databases. And before I knew it, that actually was my product. I went into product management from customer service. And when he sold the company to Choice Point, which was ultimately Equifax Financial Services, and then bought by Lexus Nexus, I was the assistant vice president of product management.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

So let's stop there for a second because there's more to talk about. But for those of you that have not heard of CDB CDB Info Tech, then this is a great way to increase your knowledge of the industry. Because that was really because I came in the industry, you know, God, 10 years, 10, 11 years later, CDB InfoTech was really the start of it all, as far as I can tell, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah. I remember having a conversation with our head of technology at one point, and he was trying to explain to me the world wide web, because it just didn't exist at that point, right? We were looking up information on a microfiche. We'd have those big machines and you'd pull up the film cards, and you know, nothing was digitized. There was no online access. And if the clients were accessing in an online basis, it was through the old, what do you call it? The modems, you know, the modem, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

The 14-4 modem, yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

And it was just a different world. You know, we nobody had computers on their desks. It was a telephone and everything was by paper. But yeah, CDB InfoTech was a really special company. And it evolved over the time I was there. When I joined the company, I was employee like number five. And when he sold the company, I think we had close to 100 employees, and we're starting to expand out internationally. And it just was like a family. And looking at the products we built and how they're, you know, these are cornerstone products in the industry still with the national criminal database. We were aggregating bankruptcy liens and judgments. We were buying all the court data we could get our hands on and making it as available. And of course, at that point, we were charging a fortune for it too, because it was brand new. You know, it's a whole different world now when you can get online records for you know almost pennies.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

I mean, that's amazing because when I first started, CDB InfoTech was like was just such a revelation that someone had actually put that together.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, we became completely probably the first wholesale data provider to the industry, right? He moved away from the private investigations into providing data.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So Yeah, for social security trace, too. I remember when that released to our clients, and it was just mind-blowing. You could put somebody social in and get every name they've used and everywhere they've lived, and yeah, it's really cool stuff.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

I mean, it was amazing about that because we're all of us are are used to the cred headers and you know, whatever source. And you were actually there when it was first done. I mean, you were you were that was your product.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yep. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

That's just amazing. That's just so flabbergasting to because people don't think about it. Well, how did this stuff start? Well, here we have with us the person who is there who started it.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Right. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Well, and you know, you talk to people that are newer to the industry or even clients, right? They don't realize what we all went through. Everybody still thinks it's like CSI on TV, right? Where you type it in and you throw it up to the big screen and you know everything about everybody. And we know it doesn't work that way, right? It's been a long road to get to where we are today.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So CBN Fair was sold to Choice Point. And then what was your role at Choice Point?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

I was still managing product. I remade it Choice Point less than a year, and I went over to Accurate Background, and they're now accurate, and I was the uh EVP and I ran operations and customer service and compliance. Did that for almost 10 years. And you know, my good friend Dave Dickerson, we actually share a birthday and grew up in the same, basically the same city, knew the same people. So it was kind of ironic, but learned a lot and learned about scalability when I joined Accurate. And in fact, I remember the day Dave and I had lunch to talk about the role. He's like, Well, you helped build CDB, you want to do it again? You know, and you want to build something? And I'm like, Yeah, that was fun, let's do it. So I think I was, I don't know, employee 10 or so. And yeah, it grew quite big, you know, managing and helping build the organization and build it in a scalable fashion, fine-tuning the systems to make them efficient. And then from there, I went over to higher right for about 10 years. So I came on board to higher rights to really help integrate the USIS acquisition that had happened maybe about a year before I joined, and really to get the synergies from the acquisition out. And you know, I think some of the most fun and the most rewarding things I had done at was at higher rights. I was running global operations, so I had teams all around the world, and you know, we built systems, we were some of the first to build the web crawlers to search the online services in real time. Within the first couple of years, I think we built 200 web crawlers, lots of product development. I've never been complacent and always looking for ways to improve things. So we were always looking at ways to be more efficient. And I gotta tell you, some of the people that I worked with there are still lifelong friends and just it we were in the trenches together there, that's for sure. And uh got a lot of stuff done. And then towards the end of it, I was traveling a lot between all the different global offices of higher eight, traveling, I don't know, nearly a hundred days a year. And that was incredibly exciting and amazing to see all the different cultures and you know, background screening is not the same outside the U.S. We all know that now. But really learning the nuances of all the different locations, but it was exhausting at the same time. I mean, I'm I'm sure you know business travel is not as glamorous as everybody thinks it is.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

So, I mean, it's an amazing history. You were with C B InfoTech and that blew up into something huge. You were then at accurate and that blew up into something huge, and you were with higher right, and that blew up into something huge. Yes. I I mean, where wherever you go, you were uh a resounding success. That's just an amazing story. That's just so wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Well, thank you. Yeah, I it was a good time, and and I learned something from all of them. I think fondly back on all of my previous employers. It was an amazing, amazing several years. I just think at one point at when I was at higher right, I thought, you know, this is when I was traveling lots and lots, and I'm like, okay, if I'm gonna work this hard, I should do it for myself. And I finally got the courage to go out on my own. And my partner and I created Five Diamond Screening, and it's was focused on primarily hospitality screening, casinos, gaming companies, retail leisure. I always called them the down and dirty background checks, the real simple criminal ones, right? For a high turnover industry. It was a great model. And I ended up moving to Las Vegas with Five Diamond, and we supported the background checks for a lot of the big casinos here and a lot of them across the country. And then end of 23, got together with EcuSource HR and they acquired Five Diamond, and you know, it's just been a really good couple of years. It really has. We're working on a considerable amount of fine-tuning and efficiency enhancement and really building things to satisfy the clients and being customer obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Oh, that's great. So that must have been really satisfying to finally, you know, af after you know, being a such a huge factor in the success of three remarkable firms, to have your own firm, you know, and make that successful.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

It was great. And you know, it's a different type of fun and it's also a different type of stress, right? Right. And it was, and you know, having the employees and you know, when I was at higher right, I was at the point where I did have thousands of people that worked in my, you know, chain of command, so to speak, but I had very few directly reporting to me. Well, you start your own company and now you're doing everything, right? You're the janitor and and approving time cards and stuff. So, you know, it was I always say I worked for the biggest of the big and the smallest of the small, and so yeah, it gives you a different perspective on everything.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

So given everything that you've done, you know, share with us if you would, like an early lesson that in your career that has stuck with you today. And I'm sure there's, you know, we all have millions of lessons, but what's one that really comes to mind like to share?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Well, you know, early in my career when I started CDB, you know, like I mentioned, my oldest daughter was a baby, right? So I was juggling the working mom world. And, you know, and at that point, I'm not like a crazy feminist, but it was definitely more of a man's world, and I knew I had to work really hard if I wanted to continue to grow in my career. So I think a couple of the things that really stood out to me is I remember from my father that you can teach anybody a skill, but you can't teach work ethic. And so I knew I had to work hard, and I always wanted to be the go-to person. You know, if I was the person that knew how to do something or they wanted my opinion, I'd always have a role, right? Between that and then the other thing that I learned early on was to model the behavior that you want from your employees. I would never do anything with any of the roles I've had. I would never ask somebody to do something I wasn't willing to do myself. And I think that's really helped me in my career. I firmly believe that people that have worked for me saw that and knew that I was in the trenches with them and understood what they were doing and the challenges they had, and nobody was gonna work as hard as I was. I mean, it was just that was the expectation.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

So yeah, uh once a long time ago I had a a friend tell me that if you ever want anything done, find the busiest person in the room because they're gonna get it done.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Wow. Right. That's the hazard of doing a good job, right? You get more work.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I love the part about leadership, the lesson of leadership you just shared is fantastic as well. To you know, to make sure that you're you that you're a model for your employees. That worked out well for you. So you obviously are a person of many talents, you could have gone anywhere, but you stayed in the screening industry with remarkable success. What uh is it about the background screening industry or the people or whatever it was that that kept you in that particular sector in this vertical?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. It's always been an amazingly gratifying job. When we all first started, it was all about um protecting our clients, right? Don't let the bad guy in. And, you know, there weren't all the rules and regulations back then. It was kind of the Wild West, and we made sure criminals didn't get hired by our employers. And then we did see this swing towards the candidate. And at some point in time, I don't know, maybe 15, 20 years ago, my mindset changed. I mean, I certainly want to protect my clients, but for me, it became about helping a person get a job. And it really stuck to me. I mean, there's a job for every person, you know, that doesn't mean every person's right for every job, but everybody has the right to work and finding that right role. And, you know, I think about like the single mom who's trying to put food on the table for her kids and, you know, get ballet lessons for her daughter, and now she's got just got a new job and she's super excited about it. And the fact that we got that backroom check done a day sooner than expected, she got to j start the job sooner. I remember one time while we had Five Diamond, I was here in Vegas. And even though, you know, I'm co-owner and I'm running the company, I'd go out to job fairs. So some of the big casinos would have job fairs, and I'd sit there and they're interviewing applicants, but I'd run like a table. Okay, when somebody was gonna get hired, they'd come to the background check station and I'd get their background check going for them. And just talking to these people that are so grateful to have a job. You know, the guy that was living in his car and now he's gonna, you know, have a job and get a paycheck again, or the person that just moved into town and was looking for a fresh start. That's what makes me passionate about it is that I'm helping people, you know, indirectly, right? But helping people put food on their table and money in their pocket and take care of their families, and it just it's always been such a gratifying thing we do.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Right, yeah. And then you add to a fair chance hiring, the second chance movement.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

You're right. And as you said, there's a job for everyone, although not everyone gets every job. And then to help those people so we don't end up with a two-tier society, you know, we're with with a you know, that's great. I'll put it in my two cents here. I've always felt that and I may have said this in other programs, that even though applicants don't pay us, uh ultimately under the FCRA and ethically and morally, or wherever you want to look at it, applicants are clients. If the employer pays and the employer is a client, but the applicants are equally clients as well. And and and you obviously embody that philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Absolutely, because an unhappy applicant, if they have a bad experience, who we hear about it, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Because they tell our clients. We don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

So in going back to this history we've gone through, and obviously you accomplished a lot at a lot of different firms, but is there anything that, you know, or one or two things that percolate to the top that really bring a smile to your face in terms of uh of accomplishments or something you're particularly proud of that you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah, there's a couple. And I know we're gonna talk about PBSA, but my time there in the formation time of the association and getting the accreditation program launched, that's definitely one of my proudest moments. The big one though that resonates me with me is you know, I have I've I've worked in the industry a long time. And I get so proud of seeing the people that either I hired or I worked with continue in their careers and grow and blossom. You know, you've had guests on your podcast of people that that worked for me. And, you know, we've got PBSA board members that that I hired originally. And, you know, it's not me patting myself on the back. I just see these people that they get passionate about the industry too. And, you know, it's a big family, right? We always say that there's nothing like other background screeners, right? Only we know what it's like. And I think about even the entry-level people that I've worked with in different countries and watching them move in their career. And I've always been a tried to be a leader that empowered people to do their job. Never been a micromanager. You know, I if I hired you for a position, I trust you're gonna do the job. And it just really fills my heart to see the people that have continued to grow in their career and gone on to be just super successful.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, then let's circle back to the first one then and uh talk about PBSA. You you know, a little bit of history at the very beginning, before we became official, we had elections, and you were people can could get nominated or nominated, however that worked, and you were on you were on the first board. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, you and I, and Jason Morris and Noelle Harling and Mike Coffey and Mary Poquet, we all right, we were there, Sandy Burns, you know, chugging along trying to put the association together. And to be honest, I don't remember how I got nominated, but there we were sitting in a hotel at the Dallas Airport, putting it all together, and we all knew what we wanted it to be, and it just blows my mind where it's gone now. It's so exciting to see how the association has grown and gone international and really set standards across the world for screening.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

And and at that first board meeting we didn't all necessarily know each other. I I mean we had I can't remember how many board members with the and I was the last one there, per usual, but yeah, it was just a goof us and we all looked at each other, hey, what do we do now? Well, let's election officers, let's get started. I mean, really, and then it's just boom. Yeah, thanks to So many people, including you and your role in accreditation. So tell us about your accreditation journey.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah. So, you know, we all knew we wanted accreditation, and the creation of the standard, that was a really big task. Because opinions of everybody, right? Of what it should include and how granular to get. And it was months, if not years, of work. Um, several iterations of the standard, of the committee working together on it. We would come together a few times a year to work on it in person, regular meetings, each and every standard. So anybody who's listening that is accredited, you know that each and every line item, we went through them just meticulously to make sure that they would achieve what we wanted them to achieve. And, you know, I know the standard has gone through a couple iterations, but the core of it is still the same as what we put in place. And so not just the creation of the standard, but creation of the audit process and the hiring of the first auditor, the determination of the programs for renewal, the secondary audits, that whole program had to be developed. It's always interesting to see when you've got a group of like 10 people and everybody's got a difference of opinion. And you know, it took a while to get there, but I'm really proud of what we finished up, what where it became and where it still is today.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And your role was the chair of the first committee?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

I wasn't the first chair, but I was the chair at the time that the accreditation finally went into place. Okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Okay. And I don't, you know, I don't want to let I mean there's so many people that worked on, I don't want to leave anybody out, but I i i in my mind who I remember most is you and Noelle Harley and uh Mike Coffee. Yeah. As sort of the people who are just went through this mind-blowing process of wordsmithing letter by letter, basically, because every single word, every apostrophe, every everything meant something.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Well, and you know, I think about like a lot of that heavy lifting. I was the ringmaster, right? Keeping us all moving. But yeah, Noelle, Mike, Mary, they were the ones that really all the different nuances. I mean, I certainly did too, but uh, you know, I think back there was a lot of driving force there.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah. And every single standard would have a debate. Yeah, multiple. I mean, totally. Yeah. I mean, I it's been a while, but there's six basic categories, and there's a bunch of subcategories, and each subcategory had you know audit criteria, and I'm sure every single one of those was like debated ad nauseum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Well, and here's the ironic thing. So I worked at Accurate Background at that time, and we were working on getting accredited, and I left accurate just before Accurate was accredited. So I didn't get accurate accredited. And then I was at Higher Rate, and we were working on getting accredited, and I left higher rate before they got accredited. So it's very ironic. I'm the one that you know got it going, and then I have personally hadn't seen a company oh cross the finish line. Now, AcuSarce HR has been accredited for several years, right? But it happened way before I got there. So I just always thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Oh, that that's fantastic. And now you did your time on the board, and then you did your time on the with the with accreditation, and now we can both sit back and just see all these marvelous people who are doing all these great things that they are, they are.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

I stayed involved for quite a while, about halfway through my stint at higher right. I was just traveling too much and too busy. Although I did attend attend conference last year, and it was the first time in a long time. Oh. But I gotta say, the friends I made through PBSA, lifelong friends. Right. And they're the kind of friends that you can not see or talk to for a couple years, and then all of a sudden it's like no time has passed. I mean, just some really incredible people.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, it was just so incredible. But let's turn from screening for a second, because some people, including you, I'm I am sure, have actually lives outside of screening.

unknown 26:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Hard to believe, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

A little bit, yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

You just you're just involved day in, day out. You just live, eat, dream, sleep, you know, background screening. That's what we're into. But outside of background screening, what's your hobbies or interests? What do you do for fun? What do you do when you don't have your head into uh compliance and operations and products and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Well, let's see. This year, my tomatoes are doing pretty good outside. Got a little bit of gardening going on. I've got tomatoes and carrots and peppers, and they're looking good. You know, from a hobby's perspective, I'm just a really crafty person. It's painting and crocheting, and but really the thing that I try to fill my time up with, a couple things. I've got two amazing daughters, and I've got five absolutely incredible grandkids, raging in age from 17 to 1. So spending time with them, I never get enough time with them. And thank heavens for FaceTime, because I don't know what I would do without FaceTime. The teenage girls, you know, they don't want to hang with grandma as much as they used to, but I know when they need me, but so they're great. The other thing I really enjoy doing, hanging out with the man in my life, the love of my life. And we spend a lot of time here in Vegas going to listen to live music. Wow. Live music junkie. Absolutely. And the other thing that I'm really busy in that I don't know if everybody knows about is just finished my year as president of a local Rotary International Club.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, so Rotary International is a service organization, literally international. There's 22,000 different clubs helping eradicate polio, bring clean water around the world. My particular club supports family and children. So we're doing a lot of volunteer work, distributing diapers, putting together meal baskets, reading to children, and that stuff really fills my heart. And so I was the president of the club last year. I'm now the past president and enjoying retirement. It's been all of 11 days now, so it was a great year for Shave.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Okay, I mean I mean, that's just an amazing list of things. I mean, when you break that down, there's the crafting. So you're crocheting, knitting, painting, and you know, the inner Martha Stewart, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yes, exactly. Quilting.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

And then I I you told me before we started that you're that you're now you're still living in Las Vegas. So congratulations that you can grow tomatoes in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yes. Lots of water.

unknown 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

I mean, that's a little that not your usual climate for agriculture. And then the grandkids are fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

The grandkids are amazing. They just incredible.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

So fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Four girls and a boy.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Wow. So you're basically Christmas shopping all year. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

You know, the whole thing that, you know, grandma spoils the kids? Absolutely. Everything goes. Grandma never says no. And it's it's good.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

And then when you're when we I assume we're able to, it's games and events and birthdays and you know, I mean wherever they all live and all that sort of thing. Oh, that's great. And then what's your live music like? I I guess it's really interesting in this program how many people in the screening industry just love live music. Yeah. Um, so what's your genre?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Everything.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Well, and I gotta say, I'm really spoiled. Here in Vegas, you can get free live music every day.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Oh, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

So there's tons of cover bands, so you know, 80s music, 90s music, country bands, classic rock. And then we see tons of concerts too, but every at least every week there's something we're going to.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

So do you have to go to the strip to do that? Or is it you can always do that?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I live about 20 minutes away from the strip. So there's a lot of local places. There are places on the strip, of course, but lots of local venues. It's good. Oh, that's amazing.

unknown 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

You know, because you go to New Orleans or Nashville and you think of those places where you get music every night. But I guess the same in Las Vegas. And if you're local, you could you know where to go without having to uh you know, brush elbows with every tourist in the country. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I much prefer the local areas for sure. Yeah. Yeah, come on to we'll take you to a couple good places. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

So if you're a Las Vegas, you landed on Las Vegas, or you're you I mean you spent a lot of time in Orange County, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

You know, up and down the 405. And now uh now you're firmly a I'm not sure what the word is, Vegas Iight or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

You don't I don't know what we call ourselves. Bad Annie. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Or the new Oakland, because you have our Raiders and you have our you're gonna have our A's pretty soon. So just don't just don't take the lawyers. All right.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Yeah, the mayor of Oakland and the mayor of Las Vegas. There was no lump loss there, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

And the work with the rotary, I mean, I really appreciate hearing about that because I know a lot of people who do things with rotary, and it's just such a an organization that just gives so much.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah, it does. And it really was in my blood. Both my father and grandfather were Rotarians. And I was at a point in my life when I was at Five Diamond and working just too many hours, right? It was 24 hours a day, and I'm like, you know, I gotta do something for me. And I took a step back and realized, okay, I really am not spending time with friends, I'm not doing anything to give back. And it was really a weird coincidence how two people I knew pointed me at the same Rotary Club. So I just knew it was meant to be. And it's an incredible group of people that you know, Rotary's motto is service above self, and it's really gratifying work.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

And repeat that model again a service above self.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Service above self.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Right, yeah, exactly. And you still have to do the weekly lunches, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Well, see, our club is an after-hours club. So we meet in the evenings. Oh. We share dinner, and it's BYOB, and so clubs can pick when they meet. Some are lunches, some are dinners, we have meeting or morning clubs. But I was particularly looking for an evening club because it's just hard to get away for lunch, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Wow. So that leads us into the next segment. And I I think you may have saved something where we play fun facts. So is there a fun fact about yourself that people don't know, don't suspect, wouldn't know, and they would go, Oh my god, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Fun facts. Let's see, I was a cheerleader in high school.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

A cheerleader in high school? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I've seen a cheerleader since I was like four years old. My dad used to coach Pee-wee football. Oh my gosh. I was a really proficient water skier. Wow. My younger days, never a snow skier. Yeah, and I just I think some of the the crafting things, a lot of people don't. I've not used to still paint murals for children's bedrooms. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

You're able to paint your grandkids made a mural too over the years. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

In fact, all my nieces and nephews have murals that my sisters and I painted for them.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

So did you go were you a cheerleader in Orange County?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

I grew up in West Cavina. Oh about an hour north of east of West of LA. Cheerleader there, West Cavina High School.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Yeah, I I know that area well. Absolutely. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

It was fun. And then you went on to be a cheerleader for all the teams you led, so I Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I'm the biggest rah-rah around. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah. Well, I mean, this is great. I don't think we left it much out, but uh a couple of questions as we wrap up and to make sure that we covered everything that we want to we want to talk about. You know, given the large number of people that you have supervised over the years, I mean you started entry level and then you spent the rest of your career basically being in charge as uh executive vice president, head of operations, head of divisions, your own firm. And you mentioned that you've hired a lot of people. Based upon the your experience in the industry, if someone who listening now is going, Oh my god, what a great career, what would be your career advice to them? And it may even be an entry-level verifier or an entry-level, you know, criminal researcher, or someone with a couple years in the industry, or maybe someone that's in a large firm and and doesn't see a lot of advancement within that firm. I mean, there's all these different you know scenarios. What's your advice? What would you tell people?

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Two things. Never stop learning. Never ever. I'm a voracious reader, and there's always keep learning. Whether it's about the industry or life in general or self-help stuff, just continue to grow. And the other one is no matter how shy you are or introverted, you've got to maximize on networking opportunities. And I think PBSA was a big part of that when it was NAPBS for me, because we were surrounded with like-minded people and it was so easy to connect with, but networking opportunities is the key. I'm firmly believe a lot of times is not what you know but who you know, and you've got to really learn to leverage that.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

That's a great observation that it's who you know is so important, and the way to get to know people is just to you know, and I've said this before, as a little bit of a broken record, is just to call up PBSA. And even if you are a person that considers yourself, you know, fairly low in the pecking order, you can go to PMA PBSA and find yourself eventually if you're willing to put in the work and you work well with others and you have the talent, you you become chair of a committee, you can be on the board.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And then things happen.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

For sure. And it's the collaborative spirit, for sure. You know, we're not sharing trade secrets, obviously. We have that anti-trust statement that's read at every meeting, but I can't tell you how many times I've reached out to people I know at PBA PBSA saying, Hey, what are you guys doing about this? Or did you hear about that situation? And you know, what's your thoughts around it? And in fact, just like two days ago, I reached out to, in fact, somebody that was on your podcast saying, Hey, you know, what do you think about this? And, you know, uh it's a great network. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah. Yeah, and that's one of the extra things about the industry too, is that I remember at the very beginning, everyone was very, you know, secret about their client list or their process and how they did things. And it turns out we all put our pants on the same way. There is no secret sauce. Yes. Maybe you know a different whistle or bell. And turns out even priceless aren't, you know, we had this anti-competitive, but there are just no secrets in the world. I mean, so it's all out there. It's all about execution and relationships, you know. And maybe someone will invent some secret sauce with AI or something. But that's always been interesting too, from my point of view. I was interested in your attitude that someone may get an advantage, they may figure something out, and for four or five months they might have something, some really cool whistle or bell to sell, and then all of a sudden everyone has it, right? Right. And then it's just back to basics, just doing it right, doing it competently. Yeah, doing it you know, repeat every single time doing it right and keeping relationships. So it's just been it's been so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Well, it is absolutely yeah, you've spotted on there.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah. This has been a great interview. We're kind of at the mark. We've gone not over, but we've actually we have we still have some time left. And what I like to do before we close out the program is to is to give my guest the last words. Uh, what's what say you? Anything else? The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Well, I want to thank you. You know, as somebody that's worked in this industry for such a long time, I've always looked up to you. You've been certainly a point of wisdom for me. So thank you for that. And thank you for all the nice words. Because, you know, I don't you don't sit there and think about your own career in quite that way. So thank you. Made me feel really good. But I just, you know, when I think back on all of it, it really does come down to the people. And background screeners are a unique breed, right? We get excited when we're screening somebody with a really unusual name or when we find some really just grotesque crime, right? That gets us all excited. But it's just an in such an incredible group of people, and I am so blessed that I've had the opportunity to work with so many of them and build things and help our clients. And it's just it's been an honor. And I plan to stick around for a few more years for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

That's fantastic. You really hit on a point I've never that has never occurred to me until just now, just when you said it. In a way, and I mean this in a very nice way. We're as a group, we're we are kind of nerdy. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we you know, there'll be some you know little small little thing, and all of a sudden we're all excited about it. I mean, how to solve it, how to get around it, how to tell it to our clients, how to build it into the process, how to teach people to do it, how to educate our clients, and we just you know, some you know, some state passes some obscure little bump in the road. It's like, oh my god, how you know, let's get on this.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

I think it's the investigative nature that we all have to have, right? Oh yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

And the sense of curiosity too. I mean, because you build and build. So when you started as CDB InfoTech, did you have any clue that you would have the career that you had and the experiences that you had?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

No, because I have to tell you, I interviewed for a customer service position. They wouldn't even tell me what the company did during the interview process. And I had gotten laid off from another customer service position. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take it. I had no idea what we did. So here I'm a customer service, and they're like, oh yeah, we're PIs, and here's what we do, and we make these phone calls and we try to get people to get us information. And so, okay, and they didn't want us talking about it. I mean, it was, you know, back to the old gumshoe world, right? Where PIs were, you know, all secretive. And yeah, I had no idea. No idea.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

I mean, you talk about remember that movie from the 60s, incredible journeys, and what you have described has has been such an incredible journey, and uh and the firms you've been with and success you had and the contributions of NAPBS PBSA have just been incredible. So it's just I'm really glad we're able to really able to catch up and you know and and reminisce. And I've learned things and heard things and you know had thoughts, you know, from listening to you that oh, yeah, that's you know, just talking to you. I've squared a couple circles in my own brain about some of the stuff we've done.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

All right.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Well, this has been fantastic talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

I agree. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

It's amazing. So, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here from Kat Brame about an incredible career in the screening industry and a lot of history that some of you may not have known, but she is not historical because she is still doing it and making it happen, and uh that's just fantastic. And welcome again and thank you, Kat, for being on behind the screens. All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host, Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.